I saw this question on another site and thought it was interesting.
If you replaced Magic in the 80's with Kobe Bryant, how many titles would the Lakers have won?
Magic won 5 titles in 9 years.
Lineup would be
Kobe
Scott
Worthy
Green
Kareem
I think they get 4 rings. The West was really easy for the Lakers at that time, they had no one who could challenge them. Also Kobe wouldn't have to worry about the scoring load and carrying the team.
If Kobe could win 3 rings with a player that is top 10 all time, then he should be able to do so with one that is top 3 all time and another star who is as good as Pippen in James Worthy.
Thoughts!!!!
Replace Magic Johnson in the 80's with Kobe Bryant .....
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Replace Magic Johnson in the 80's with Kobe Bryant .....
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JordansBulls
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Replace Magic Johnson in the 80's with Kobe Bryant .....
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Tesla
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He wouldn't have been a better fit than Magic. No player in NBA history would have been a better fit than Magic Johnson himself.
Magic was the identity of that team, and that team was suited greatly for him. He was the break, the no look pass, the fast paced offense... he was showtime.
So less than 5 rings, no doubt in my mind. I'm not even sure if they get one ring... who is the point guard? Kobe? Kobe is a great passer, and a good inatiator for the triangle, but he's no PG for a high paced offense like that. With that exact same lineup, I'm not sure they win one ring.
Now, replace those players with players that suit Kobe's style, and patch up Kobe's weaknesses - players of a similar calibur/talent, and I'm sure they win a few championships in the 80's. Perhaps not 5, but maybe like 3. Impossible to judge.
Magic was the identity of that team, and that team was suited greatly for him. He was the break, the no look pass, the fast paced offense... he was showtime.
So less than 5 rings, no doubt in my mind. I'm not even sure if they get one ring... who is the point guard? Kobe? Kobe is a great passer, and a good inatiator for the triangle, but he's no PG for a high paced offense like that. With that exact same lineup, I'm not sure they win one ring.
Now, replace those players with players that suit Kobe's style, and patch up Kobe's weaknesses - players of a similar calibur/talent, and I'm sure they win a few championships in the 80's. Perhaps not 5, but maybe like 3. Impossible to judge.
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Tesla wrote:He wouldn't have been a better fit than Magic. No player in NBA history would have been a better fit than Magic Johnson himself.
Magic was the identity of that team, and that team was suited greatly for him. He was the break, the no look pass, the fast paced offense... he was showtime.
Exactly. Honestly, it seems as if people never consider fit in hypothetical scenarios such as this. They just think, "Well if, in this case, Kobe, had that team, he'd win all those rings." The team was built around Magic and he made the Showtime engine go. How could anyone think you could just take out Magic and plug in a completely different player and expect to get the same or better results?
Tesla wrote:Now, replace those players with players that suit Kobe's style, and patch up Kobe's weaknesses - players of a similar calibur/talent, and I'm sure they win a few championships in the 80's. Perhaps not 5, but maybe like 3. Impossible to judge.
You will have the rebuild the team to suit Kobe and see what happens there
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No question that would still be an elite team.
I think you probably take away that title that Magic got when Kareem got hurt and Magic played center game 7. Maybe Kobe pulls off a miracle by himself, but that Philly team was very good. I think you have to take that title away from them.
and the Celtics were pretty ridiculous too - not sure offhand how many of those other 4 magic titles were against Bird & Co. It's impossible to say, but maybe Kobe could have won as many titles as magic, but my guess is in this hypothetica, he/they would be at least 1 short, maybe 2 short. 3-4 titles is my guess.
But, replace Magic with Jordan and it might also be 3-4, though, I think Jordan developed into a better team player htan Kobe, so Jordan would probably win more titles than Kobe, but Magic would remain at the top.
I think you probably take away that title that Magic got when Kareem got hurt and Magic played center game 7. Maybe Kobe pulls off a miracle by himself, but that Philly team was very good. I think you have to take that title away from them.
and the Celtics were pretty ridiculous too - not sure offhand how many of those other 4 magic titles were against Bird & Co. It's impossible to say, but maybe Kobe could have won as many titles as magic, but my guess is in this hypothetica, he/they would be at least 1 short, maybe 2 short. 3-4 titles is my guess.
But, replace Magic with Jordan and it might also be 3-4, though, I think Jordan developed into a better team player htan Kobe, so Jordan would probably win more titles than Kobe, but Magic would remain at the top.
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ImmortalD24 wrote:And your obsession with Kobe Bryant continues.. 5-6titles imo.
obviously less titles
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TrueLAfan
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Well, I think they'd still pick up a ring or two. The Lakers, even outside of Magic, weren't hurting for passing. Kareem was a terrific passer; so was Coop. Byron and Worthy were very good. Norm Nixon was on a couple of those teams.
IMO, the main question would be how much Kobe would be willing to subsume his game. Magic was not only an elite passer, he was an incredibly efficient scorer...much more efficient than Kobe. Worthy could have scored much more on another team; so, probably, could Magic. Kobe's biggest advantage is in scoring....which is just what the 80s Lakers didn't need. Would Kobe become more efficient as a 15-18 spg game guy? Would it be enough to make up for the loss of efficiency compared to Magic?
(btw...I don't the defense question would be that big of a deal. Magic was a good team defender, especially when younger, and Coop was like a roaming guard in the trap D they played.)
Then there's leadership and chemistry. Kobe is a substantial minus compared to Magic in both areas. It was hard to keep a team of scorers and passers happy; Magic was able to do it. That was a big part of his mystique and genius; he could excel and dominated while letting others perform at an extremely high level and without any rancor. I seriously doubt Kobe could do that. That's a big strike against him comparatively. Kobe's way of "leading" usually involves him controlling the ball, which would stagnate the offense and piss off his teammates. It's happened in the past; I've got to think it would happen with the Showtime Lakers. Kobe is so gifted that I think they'd still break through once or twice, but they'd be considerably less successful and much, much less happy as a team.
IMO, the main question would be how much Kobe would be willing to subsume his game. Magic was not only an elite passer, he was an incredibly efficient scorer...much more efficient than Kobe. Worthy could have scored much more on another team; so, probably, could Magic. Kobe's biggest advantage is in scoring....which is just what the 80s Lakers didn't need. Would Kobe become more efficient as a 15-18 spg game guy? Would it be enough to make up for the loss of efficiency compared to Magic?
(btw...I don't the defense question would be that big of a deal. Magic was a good team defender, especially when younger, and Coop was like a roaming guard in the trap D they played.)
Then there's leadership and chemistry. Kobe is a substantial minus compared to Magic in both areas. It was hard to keep a team of scorers and passers happy; Magic was able to do it. That was a big part of his mystique and genius; he could excel and dominated while letting others perform at an extremely high level and without any rancor. I seriously doubt Kobe could do that. That's a big strike against him comparatively. Kobe's way of "leading" usually involves him controlling the ball, which would stagnate the offense and piss off his teammates. It's happened in the past; I've got to think it would happen with the Showtime Lakers. Kobe is so gifted that I think they'd still break through once or twice, but they'd be considerably less successful and much, much less happy as a team.
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1. Is Kobe going to play C when Kareem gets hurt?
I dont see how replaceing the GOAT PG with a top 5 SG is going to win more games.
Could we not ask:
Replace Wilt with KG and do the Warriors win a title?
Replace MJ with Kidd and do the Bulls win more titles?
You cant replace a GOAT player with a top 5 player at a differant posistion and expect to win.
Magic, Bird, MJ, Russell, Wilt could not be replaced on there championship teams by any other player and those teams have similar success.
I dont see how replaceing the GOAT PG with a top 5 SG is going to win more games.
Could we not ask:
Replace Wilt with KG and do the Warriors win a title?
Replace MJ with Kidd and do the Bulls win more titles?
You cant replace a GOAT player with a top 5 player at a differant posistion and expect to win.
Magic, Bird, MJ, Russell, Wilt could not be replaced on there championship teams by any other player and those teams have similar success.
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TrueLAfan
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Warspite wrote:Magic, Bird, MJ, Russell, Wilt could not be replaced on there championship teams by any other player and those teams have similar success.
Agreed. And I think Magic is kind of a special case. He's a truly unique player--even more than the other players--and would be harder to replace on a successful team.
