RealGM

Who is the better center right now?

This is easily Miller IMO.

Miller is playing like an All Star center.

15/10/4/1/1

No disrespect to Shaq but he is not currently better then Miller...

Oh how the might have fallen

miller 8 days a week, but shaq makes up for it with his quotes and doing the league a favor by destroying the suns.

Sadly, this goes to Miller by a landslide.

Don't know if I'd agree that it's Miller.

15, 10 and 4 is nice (especially at the percentage he's hitting from the line) but he's still a weak defender, still only scoring at a TS of 56.2% (which is nice but still lower than what Shaq was managing in Miami before the trade by 1.3%), Shaq is actually outrebounding him in 8 fewer minutes per game and still scoring 2/3ds of the points Miller's scoring on 4 fewer shots per game. Notably, he's also drawing almost an extra FTA per game despite that lower shot volume and fewer minutes per game.

Shaq may not be statistically superior in all categories any more but I'd still rather have him than Miller. Raw per-game averages aren't everything and even in those, Shaq is doing enough damage that it doesn't reflect favorably on Miller.

Miller, sad to see the Diesel falling off this much.

tsherkin wrote:Don't know if I'd agree that it's Miller.

15, 10 and 4 is nice (especially at the percentage he's hitting from the line) but he's still a weak defender, still only scoring at a TS of 56.2% (which is nice but still lower than what Shaq was managing in Miami before the trade by 1.3%), Shaq is actually outrebounding him in 8 fewer minutes per game and still scoring 2/3ds of the points Miller's scoring on 4 fewer shots per game. Notably, he's also drawing almost an extra FTA per game despite that lower shot volume and fewer minutes per game.

Shaq may not be statistically superior in all categories any more but I'd still rather have him than Miller. Raw per-game averages aren't everything and even in those, Shaq is doing enough damage that it doesn't reflect favorably on Miller.

And that doesn't even take into account that Shaq is still drawing the double team. You have to account for him because he still has a huge impact on the game.

I'll take Shaq..just because the Suns are struggling, it isn't on Shaq..he has become underrated IMO..he's still efficient and has been a good rebounder since arriving to Phoenix..Amare's game has thrived on Shaqs presence so far..Brad Miller is a good player, but he doesn't have a significant advantage over Shaq, and doesn't have Diesels presence on the boards or defensively..

tsherkin wrote:Don't know if I'd agree that it's Miller.

15, 10 and 4 is nice (especially at the percentage he's hitting from the line) but he's still a weak defender, still only scoring at a TS of 56.2% (which is nice but still lower than what Shaq was managing in Miami before the trade by 1.3%), Shaq is actually outrebounding him in 8 fewer minutes per game and still scoring 2/3ds of the points Miller's scoring on 4 fewer shots per game. Notably, he's also drawing almost an extra FTA per game despite that lower shot volume and fewer minutes per game.

Shaq may not be statistically superior in all categories any more but I'd still rather have him than Miller. Raw per-game averages aren't everything and even in those, Shaq is doing enough damage that it doesn't reflect favorably on Miller.

Well of course, Shaq is getting more points per shot/FTA due to being in the paint exclusively...Unlike, Miller who stays in the high post most of the time... It is incredible for a C that shoots 56.2% (TS) if all (or majority of his shots are jumpshots). Eh regardless, I take Miller over Shaq pretty easily IMO...

give me shaq

kingsfan10 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Well of course, Shaq is getting more points per shot/FTA due to being in the paint exclusively...Unlike, Miller who stays in the high post most of the time... It is incredible for a C that shoots 56.2% (TS) if all (or majority of his shots are jumpshots). Eh regardless, I take Miller over Shaq pretty easily IMO...

Well, that's your prerogative but I'd still much rather have Shaq because he's still a more dangerous offensive weapon, a better rebounder, a better defender and a comparable passer even if his volume of assists produced isn't the same. Brad Miller on the Suns would be worse for them than Shaq for a variety of reasons.

Miller's a fine shooter, not even just for a big man but in general, he's a fine mid-range shooter. But he gets closer to the rim often enough and he's still much less effective on O than the Diesel.

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Well, that's your prerogative but I'd still much rather have Shaq because he's still a more dangerous offensive weapon, a better rebounder, a better defender and a comparable passer even if his volume of assists produced isn't the same. Brad Miller on the Suns would be worse for them than Shaq for a variety of reasons.

Miller's a fine shooter, not even just for a big man but in general, he's a fine mid-range shooter. But he gets closer to the rim often enough and he's still much less effective on O than the Diesel.

Eh, fair enough. It is really determines how the team structure and the need of a team. If they want a post center, choose Shaq. If they want a high post high post center, choose Miller... Again, it is about preference, I guess...

kingsfan10 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Eh, fair enough. It is really determines how the team structure and the need of a team. If they want a post center, choose Shaq. If they want a high post high post center, choose Miller... Again, it is about preference, I guess...

No, I think it's more about efficacy of the player, since Shaq is a very capable post passer and is displaying the ability to function in the high post in Phoenix. He's certainly not got the shot to SCORE from out there on a regular basis but then again, if you can choose between a high post center and a low post center, you go low post because it's better for you in the end.

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No, I think it's more about efficacy of the player, since Shaq is a very capable post passer and is displaying the ability to function in the high post in Phoenix. He's certainly not got the shot to SCORE from out there on a regular basis but then again, if you can choose between a high post center and a low post center, you go low post because it's better for you in the end.

But if you have a post player like Shaq that is deteriorating in a rapid pace in contrast to Miller's all star level play (all year)...IMO It's wise to chose the player that is ideal...Which is Miller in this situation... I know Shaq brings his intangibles but how long will it lasts? Again, the question asks who is the better player now, it is Miller IMO...

all star level? no, not even close. 20 ppg/10 rpg is all star level

dcash4 wrote:all star level? no, not even close. 20 ppg/10 rpg is all star level

Oh, let me clarify that...He is playing like his old all star level play from 3 years ago... He is putting up almost identical numbers from his all star year...But putting up 15/10/4/1/1 is very close to all star level though...

kingsfan10 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



But if you have a post player like Shaq that is deteriorating in a rapid pace in contrast to Miller's all star level play (all year)...IMO It's wise to chose the player that is ideal...Which is Miller in this situation... I know Shaq brings his intangibles but how long will it lasts? Again, the question asks who is the better player now, it is Miller IMO...

I disagree because you're overrating the nature of Shaq's deterioration. Again, he's still a better rebounder than Miller and a more efficient scorer, puts more pressure on the opposition frontcourt, etc.

Shaq is still a lot more valuable than Miller.

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I disagree because you're overrating the nature of Shaq's deterioration. Again, he's still a better rebounder than Miller and a more efficient scorer, puts more pressure on the opposition frontcourt, etc.

Shaq is still a lot more valuable than Miller.

Umm, Im not overrating Shaq's deterioration...He is been in decline for the last 4 years...Not to mention that he will be 36 in 5 days... Even though, Shaq still have the intangibles and reputation of being a dangerous post presence. But again, how long will it lasts? He is just a former shell from his old self...

kingsfan10 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Umm, Im not overrating Shaq's deterioration...He is been in decline for the last 4 years...Not to mention that he will be 36 in 5 days... Even though, Shaq still have the intangibles and reputation of being a dangerous post presence. But again, how long will it lasts? He is just a former shell from his old self...

Yeah, he's a former shell of one of the greatest players to participate in an NBA game and that shell is still more effective than Miller even at his age and even a half-decade into his decline. Miller isn't THAT good. He's a fine, starting-caliber center but he's not as good as Shaq, even now.