ESPN's top PF list

[penbeast0]

1. Duncan 10 10 10 8 8 9 9 9 8 10 10 101
2. Malone 9 9 6 9 10 10 10 8 10 9 8 98
3. Barkley 5 8 5 6 9 4 8 7 2 8 9 71
4. McHale 4 4 9 3 7 8 5 6 6 7 6 65
5. Pettit 8 5 7 10 6 6 4 5 9 3 -- 63

6. Garnett -- 7 4 7 1 7 6 10 7 4 -- 53
7. Hayes 6 6 8 -- 5 3 7 1 -- 6 7 49
8. Debusschere 7 -- -- -- 3 5 2 -- -- -- -- 17
9. B. Williams -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 -- 4 2 4 13
10. Nowitzki -- 2 -- 4 -- -- -- -- -- 5 -- 11

Others receiving votes (points): Amare Stoudemire (9), Chris Webber (9), Dennis Rodman (7), Dolph Schayes (7), Horace Grant (5), Ben Wallace (4), Spencer Haywood (3), Luke Jackson (3), Gus Johnson (3), Rasheed Wallace (3), Shawn Kemp (2), Bob McAdoo (2), George McGinnis (2), Charles Oakley (2), Connie Hawkins (1), Jerry Lucas (1), Vern Mikkelson (1)

No huge problems with this list outside of my usual ones . . .ie Barkley and McHale are overrated. Barkley was a poor team leader (practice/drinking/divisive locker room presence) and one of the worst defenders I've ever seen play the 4; McHale was a weak rebounder and while he could have scored more on another team, almost certainly would not have been close to his efficiency numbers since he would not have faced the single coverage he was blessed with AND would not have had the greatest passing 3 of all time to feed him.

Surprised to see Buck Williams getting more love than Rodman or Jerry Lucas who I'd rate higher; I thought I rated him higher than most. Not sure where to rate Nowitski yet, he could move higher (as could Garnett if the Celtics win the title this year). McAdoo and Hawkins are probably considered mainly a C/SF respectively.

My top 10:
1. Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Garnett
4. Pettit
5. Barkley

6. Elvin Hayes
7. DeBusschere
8. Rodman
9. McHale
10. Jerry Lucas

A few extra notes. Webber is a soft player and a choking dog, if I have to deal with immature behavior, I'd rather have Rodman. Schayes for his era and McGinnis for his league get penalized but relative to their competition were this good and deserve consideration if not inclusion on this list.

[farzi]

Barkley is overrated, Pettit should be higher

[hermes]

KG and pettit should be higher

[farzi]

KG and pettit should be higher

KG isn't better than Malone or Duncan, sorry

[rsavaj]

1. Duncan 10 10 10 8 8 9 9 9 8 10 10 101
2. Malone 9 9 6 9 10 10 10 8 10 9 8 98
3. Barkley 5 8 5 6 9 4 8 7 2 8 9 71
4. McHale 4 4 9 3 7 8 5 6 6 7 6 65
5. Pettit 8 5 7 10 6 6 4 5 9 3 -- 63

6. Garnett -- 7 4 7 1 7 6 10 7 4 -- 53
7. Hayes 6 6 8 -- 5 3 7 1 -- 6 7 49
8. Debusschere 7 -- -- -- 3 5 2 -- -- -- -- 17
9. B. Williams -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 -- 4 2 4 13
10. Nowitzki -- 2 -- 4 -- -- -- -- -- 5 -- 11

Others receiving votes (points): Amare Stoudemire (9), Chris Webber (9), Dennis Rodman (7), Dolph Schayes (7), Horace Grant (5), Ben Wallace (4), Spencer Haywood (3), Luke Jackson (3), Gus Johnson (3), Rasheed Wallace (3), Shawn Kemp (2), Bob McAdoo (2), George McGinnis (2), Charles Oakley (2), Connie Hawkins (1), Jerry Lucas (1), Vern Mikkelson (1)

No huge problems with this list outside of my usual ones . . .ie Barkley and McHale are overrated. Barkley was a poor team leader (practice/drinking/divisive locker room presence) and one of the worst defenders I've ever seen play the 4; McHale was a weak rebounder and while he could have scored more on another team, almost certainly would not have been close to his efficiency numbers since he would not have faced the single coverage he was blessed with AND would not have had the greatest passing 3 of all time to feed him.

Surprised to see Buck Williams getting more love than Rodman or Jerry Lucas who I'd rate higher; I thought I rated him higher than most. Not sure where to rate Nowitski yet, he could move higher (as could Garnett if the Celtics win the title this year). McAdoo and Hawkins are probably considered mainly a C/SF respectively.

My top 10:
1. Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Garnett
4. Pettit
5. Barkley

6. Elvin Hayes
7. DeBusschere
8. Rodman
9. McHale
10. Jerry Lucas

A few extra notes. Webber is a soft player and a choking dog, if I have to deal with immature behavior, I'd rather have Rodman. Schayes for his era and McGinnis for his league get penalized but relative to their competition were this good and deserve consideration if not inclusion on this list.

Amare tied with C-Webb in votes? Wow.

[ITK9]

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Amare tied with C-Webb in votes? Wow.

webber in his prime>>>amare now.

[conleyorbust]

That list was put out in 05'. If it were redone today Duncan would have 10s across the board and KG might be a couple of spots higher. However I think Pettit should jump McHale. Dirk also may have jumped a spot or two since the 67 win season and the MVP.

[DwayneSchintzus]

link???

[a-rod]

My top 10:
1. Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Garnett
4. Pettit
5. Barkley

6. Elvin Hayes
7. DeBusschere
8. Rodman
9. McHale
10. Jerry Lucas

A few extra notes. Webber is a soft player and a choking dog, if I have to deal with immature behavior, I'd rather have Rodman. Schayes for his era and McGinnis for his league get penalized but relative to their competition were this good and deserve consideration if not inclusion on this list.

here is mine:
1. Karl Malone
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. Barkley
5. Elvin Hayes
6. McHale
7.Rasheed Wallace
8. webber
9. Nowitzki
10.Pettit

[Dirk_diggler_41]

My top 10:
1. Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Garnett
4. Pettit
5. Barkley

6. Elvin Hayes
7. DeBusschere
8. Rodman
9. McHale
10. Jerry Lucas

A few extra notes. Webber is a soft player and a choking dog, if I have to deal with immature behavior, I'd rather have Rodman. Schayes for his era and McGinnis for his league get penalized but relative to their competition were this good and deserve consideration if not inclusion on this list.

here is mine:
1. Karl Malone
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. Barkley
5. Elvin Hayes
6. McHale
7.Rasheed Wallace
8. webber
9. Nowitzki
10.Pettit

What? Wallace is not a top ten forward.

15.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.9 APG is not good enough. He's NEVER made an All NBA Team. And his career PER is just 17.4!

[KF10]

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Amare tied with C-Webb in votes? Wow.

Yeah, that's what Im thinking... If he didnt have that microfracture surgery, he could have been one of the best PF in NBA history....Assuming that his prime is extended for couple years and playing at an elite level....(25/10/5/1/2) He had a shot to be within the top 5 PFs of all time IMO....He was always behind Duncan/Garnett during the early parts of 2000s...Could have make a case he was only behind Duncan..but it was unlikely but at one point yes he was... Amare is a great player but it is silly that he is tied with Webber in terms of votes...

[a-rod]

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Yeah, that's what Im thinking... If he didnt have that microfracture surgery, he could have been one of the best PF in NBA history....Assuming that his prime is extended for couple years and playing at an elite level....(25/10/5/1/2) He had a shot to be within the top 5 PFs of all time IMO....He was always behind Duncan/Garnett during the early parts of 2000s...Could have make a case he was only behind Duncan..but it was unlikely but at one point yes he was... Amare is a great player but it is silly that he is tied with Webber in terms of votes...

Homer

[Kabookalu]

Okay, what's up with Rodman not being on the top 10? Is it because of image? Because Charles Barkley wasn't exactly the lovedoll for the media as well.

[KF10]

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Homer

lol...Really... There is people that doesnt remember the PRIME Webber....He was THAT good...

[Dirk_diggler_41]

Re: Webber

When assessing a players greatness how can we not take his longevity into account? Webber's prime was four or five years long. And he played over 70 games just once in those prime years.

By comparison, Nowitzki has had eight straight seasons where he has had an average PER of over 22. In each of those seasons he has played at least 76 games (not including this one).

[conleyorbust]

Okay, what's up with Rodman not being on the top 10? Is it because of image? Because Charles Barkley wasn't exactly the lovedoll for the media as well.

Which of those 10 do you think he was better than?

[KF10]

Re: Webber

When assessing a players greatness how can we not take his longevity into account? Webber's prime was four or five years long. And he played over 70 games just once in those prime years.

Yeah, that's the sad part he was plagued by knee injuries.... The microfracture surgery devastated several players i.e. Grant Hill, Kidd (To some extent) and etc... It's sad, really....

[a-rod]

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What? Wallace is not a top ten forward.

15.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.9 APG is not good enough. He's NEVER made an All NBA Team. And his career PER is just 17.4!

his offensive stats are not reflective of the impact he has on a game offensively. I might over exaggerate but he is the Best low-post defender of all-time.

[a-rod]

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lol...Really... There is people that doesnt remember the PRIME Webber....He was THAT good...

I was J/K, hes number 8 on my list.

[NO-KG-AI]

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his offensive stats are not reflective of the impact he has on a game offensively. I might over exaggerate but he is the Best low-post defender of all-time.

LAWL, you over exaggerate a lot, he's not even the best low post defender of his era, or even of his draft class for that matter.