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let the battle begin

CP3 for me.

i don't even think offense needs to be brought up. One plays defense, the other doesn't.

Isn't Paul on pace for the highest PER for PG? And for the PER haters, yes PER isn't everything but look at the company he's in.

Chris Paul has been better this year than any year of Nash's career. Its a damn shame he isn't ever on national TV.

pace-adjusted per-40 numbers:

Ouch^

Edit: and a big in your face to everyone who laughed when I said Chris Paul has the best natural court vision since Jason Kidd.

Paul is certainly having a better season numbers-wise. No argument there; of course he's having arguably the best ever statistical season for a point guard. Doesn't necessarilly mean he is having the best ever regular season for a point guard. The impact that Nash had on that team was unbelievable... completely transformed it.

I'll say this, Paul has been the better pure player this season, he has been a more prolific scorer, a more prolific AND efficient passer, and a better defender.

Its hard to argue impact though. Nash made point guard-ing cool again and led the Suns to their first 60 win season since Barkley.

I'd like to see Chris Paul run with Amare Stoudemire at his best, Shawn Marion, Q-Rich shooting lights out, and Joe Johnson.

NO-KG-AI wrote:I'd like to see Chris Paul run with Amare Stoudemire at his best, Shawn Marion, Q-Rich shooting lights out, and Joe Johnson.

well this team is not far off..the team is built perfectly around him, he would just need a more consistent guy than Mo Pete and itll be pretty even by next season.

steve nash for me

NO-KG-AI wrote:I'd like to see Chris Paul run with Amare Stoudemire at his best, Shawn Marion, Q-Rich shooting lights out, and Joe Johnson.

Didn't even realize but the question was for 05-06 Nash who led a team with only 1 of those players.

Regardless, Chris Paul isn't really hurting for guys to pass to on his team. Fact is that the Suns run (ran) a dramatically different set than the Hornets. Phoenix was always pushing the pace and New Orleans is hardly ever doing it. They have different roles in that regard (although both could basically be considered the "engine" of their respective teams).

05-06 Nash was better than the Nash of the season before although arguably less deserving of the MVP (not in my mind), only because Bron and Kobe had such great seasons even though their teams weren't as good and didn't go as far in the POs.

He ran that team as well as could have been expected, he pushed the pace like a mad man to make up for the lack of size, the biggest guy on the floor most of the time was Bo Diaw; and he shot at TS% of .63 to make up for the loss of efficiency.

Again, Paul has been a phenomenal player this season and in a vacuum certainly superior than any PG since Magic but Nash played about as perfectly as possible in those situations.

CB4MiamiHeat wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



well this team is not far off..the team is built perfectly around him, he would just need a more consistent guy than Mo Pete and itll be pretty even by next season.

It's not really that close, not in terms of offensive firepower, the team is good because of how good we are defensively, but in terms of looking at the PG stats, Chris' stats would look much better than they do with the team Nash had.

Amare and the pick and roll are far more lethal than anything we have, not to mention the rest of the guys. Even Marion was scoring 21.8 on 52% shooting, which is a bit ahead of what West is doing.

Even if you think our offensive players are equal, Chris is racking up the assists with less finishers, Tyson is a pretty good finisher, but really doesn't take contact well, and just finishes open alley oops, and David creates a good bit of his shots on his own.

Nash had two of the top finishers in Amare and Marion, and they can finish any play for you, we have more guys who are less likely to score you an assist. I'd trade Peja and Mo for JJ and Q-rich of 05-06 any day.

Chris offensive numbers already look better, not to mention how much better he is as a defender and rebounder, he's at just under 4 playing with one of the better rebounding teams, the best offensive rebounder in the league, a 7'1 athletic freak, a 6'9 forward with a 7'4 wings span, and a 6'10 SF.

Nash could still have an edge in peoples mind because he had great post season play, but Chris is no doubt playing better than Nash ever has in a regular season.

I dunno, Chris is scoring more, on a tad less efficiency, playing worlds better D, dishing the ball out better, and turning it over a great bit less, I don't see how any of this can be argued.

Nash is the better shooter, but Chris is currently shooting 49.4%, 37.3% from 3, and 85.8% from the line, so its not like he doesn't have excellent efficiency.

Oh ****, thanks Conleyorbust, I was thinking 04-05.

Damn, what a waste of an argument!

I still think Chris is better than Nash was, but I totally exhausted myself.....

I said Paul.

For the record, I'd say '05-06 was Nash's worst of his first 3 with Phoenix. Were the question between Paul this year and '04-05 Nash, I'd say Nash to this point. To pass him up, Paul will have to have an epic playoff run like Nash did.

It's not neither, it's Paul, BUT both can kiss my ass while they are at it.

NO-KG-AI wrote:Nash could still have an edge in peoples mind because he had great post season play, but Chris is no doubt playing better than Nash ever has in a regular season.

You're in the same ballpark as me but I'm not willing to concede your latter point. I don't know how you can look at Nash in '04-05 and think "Wow, he was really holding the team back by X". The team was utterly dominant with him, and pathetic without him, doing just what he did, and when they needed him to put up numbers that put Paul to shame he did. What more do you want?

I don't have a problem if you think Paul's better than Nash's peak, but I don't think it's as open and shut as you do.

Doctor MJ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You're in the same ballpark as me but I'm not willing to concede your latter point. I don't know how you can look at Nash in '04-05 and think "Wow, he was really holding the team back by X". The team was utterly dominant with him, and pathetic without him, doing just what he did, and when they needed him to put up numbers that put Paul to shame he did. What more do you want?

I don't have a problem if you think Paul's better than Nash's peak, but I don't think it's as open and shut as you do.

No doubt, Nash was phenomenal, but Chris is phenomenaler

Paul with no hesitation


His defense alone separates him from Nash

I'm with DoctorMJ...Paul over the 05-06 Nash; more or less even with the 04-05 Nash.

People that keep bringing up statistics and PER...it's troublesome. Not that statistics aren't wonderful tools, but we're talking about comparing a player's performance now to a player's performance two to four years ago. If you need statistics, it's more of a sign that you weren't actually watching the games than anything else. Nash's impact with the Suns in his first two years was incredible.

Player value often exceeds numbers. It's the case with Steve Nash. Not that Chris Paul has been anything other than awesome...but trying to boil down Steve Nash's impact to numbers is stupid. Unless the numbers are Ws, and that's where impact is ultimately measured.