Sabonis in his prime..

HarlemHeat37 · Post #1 » by **HarlemHeat37** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:55 pm

where would Arvydas have ranked if he played in the NBA during his prime?..compared to C's in the 80's and 90's?..

Blame Rasho · Post #2 » by **Blame Rasho** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:57 pm

I think he would have a legit case of being the best of his era. There isn't much that he couldn't do...

Red Robot · Post #3 » by **Red Robot** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:11 pm

Look at what he did his first year in the NBA. 14.5 points and 8 rebounds in only 24 minutes per game. 7th in the league in PER. 3rd in the league in rebound %. 8th in the league in true shooting %. 3rd in the league in defensive rating. The best defensive player on the league's 3rd best defensive team. A wonderful passer and team player.

Extrapolate it out and he would have been nasty. And that's without his athleticism.

Kobay · Post #4 » by **Kobay** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:11 pm

He blocked the view of the rim with his head

CzBoobie · Post #5 » by **CzBoobie** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:13 pm

TD is the MAN wrote:I think he would have a legit case of being the best of his era. There isn't much that he couldn't do...

theTHIEF · Post #6 » by **theTHIEF** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:13 pm

moved...

candy for lunch · Post #7 » by **candy for lunch** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:13 pm

Best center since Wilt.

That Nicka · Post #8 » by **That Nicka** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:52 pm

supersteve wrote:Best center since Wilt.

fixed

mudyez · Post #9 » by **mudyez** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:25 pm

as I often said: I spoke to a former assistant coach of sabonis and he told me, that Sabonis could have been the GOAT, if he only would have had the attitude to work hard.....he may have been the most talented player of all time, but he also was one of the laziest....that said, he could have overcame wilt and maybe even jordan (not sure, if he will to win would habe put him over jordan)

That Nicka · Post #10 » by **That Nicka** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:45 pm

Even if he played in the NBA his entire career I doubt he wouldve been better than Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq... Maybe even DRob

nitetrain8603 · Post #11 » by **nitetrain8603** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:06 pm

That Nicka wrote:Even if he played in the NBA his entire career I doubt he wouldve been better than Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq... Maybe even DRob

Why do you say that? Supporting evidence please? This guy possessed it all. He was like Chris Webber with his passing ability, the body of Shaq, and a 3 point shot Sam Perkins wishes he had. He had great awareness and IQ. I don't see why he couldn't have been the best since Wilt.

BTW, why was this moved?

Fitz303 · Post #12 » by **Fitz303** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:15 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Why do you say that? Supporting evidence please? This guy possessed it all. He was like Chris Webber with his passing ability, the body of Shaq, and a 3 point shot Sam Perkins wishes he had. He had great awareness and IQ. I don't see why he couldn't have been the best since Wilt.

BTW, why was this moved?

+1 ... What could have been for Portland :cry:

The guy was an absolute freak of nature, but most people here will never understand it because they either only saw him in his over the hill days when he could barely get up and down the court or never saw him at all

Post #13 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:43 am

That Nicka wrote:Even if he played in the NBA his entire career I doubt he wouldve been better than Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq... Maybe even DRob

He had the most versatile toolset since Walton and with better size; but as great as his offense was, his defense wasn't that great (not terrible; good shotblocker; but not great) since it's all about intensity and defense wins championships. Therefore, would definitely rate him behind Shaq and Hakeem (not that that's anything like an insult since both are among the top 10 of all time).

Not sure about DRob or Ewing. Robinson was actually better than Hakeem in the regular season at his peak, but didn't step up in the postseason. Sabonis, from what I have heard, did step up in Olympics (v. DRob) and big Euro championships, so although I'd take Robinson's O/D combo over Sabas's, Sabonis might have passed him on clutch play . . . very speculative though. Ewing was a step below Robinson so again, very speculative whether Sabonis could match up.

One more point. One of the things that made Sabonis so unique was his shooting range. However, I'm not sure I want one of the 10 most dominating players of all time hanging around the outside at 7'3 . . . it would be like Chris Webber; I would rather have a less versatile but more efficient scorer . . . like Shaq whose range is barely longer than a dunk. Interesting player; basically Bill Walton without an NBA championship (or All-NBA/All-Def teams) to his name . . .

That Nicka · Post #14 » by **That Nicka** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:56 am

[quote="penbeast0"][/quote]

This is pretty much my line of thought as well

Post #15 » by **Turisas** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:14 am

That Nicka wrote:Even if he played in the NBA his entire career I doubt he wouldve been better than Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq... Maybe even DRob

Have you seen him play before he had all those injuries? Someone mentioned he had one of the best PERs in the league even though his mobility was shot by the time he came here. Watch this clip from 86' (includes a facial on Robinson, a block on Robinson and a tip jam that has to be seen to be believed) he used to be so much more active.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

That Nicka · Post #16 » by **That Nicka** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:27 am

Turisas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Have you seen him play before he had all those injuries? Someone mentioned he had one of the best PERs in the league even though his mobility was shot by the time he came here. Watch this clip from 86' (includes a facial on Robinson, a block on Robinson and a tip jam that has to be seen to be believed) he used to be so much more active.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

That was Sabonis in his prime and DRob at age 21 and hadnt played a professional game yet.... To say Sabonis would have automatically leaped Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem (referring to the guy that said he would have been the best center since Wilt) if he had been in the NBA in his prime is ridiculous... Just because he had the potential to be the best, doesnt mean he would have been

Hell Chris Webber had the tools to be the best PF to ever play the game but he might not even make it to the Hall of Fame...

Post #17 » by **TNBT** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:55 am

That Nicka wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

That was Sabonis in his prime and DRob at age 21 and hadnt played a professional game yet.... To say Sabonis would have automatically leaped Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem (referring to the guy that said he would have been the best center since Wilt) if he had been in the NBA in his prime is ridiculous... Just because he had the potential to be the best, doesnt mean he would have been

Hell Chris Webber had the tools to be the best PF to ever play the game but he might not even make it to the Hall of Fame...

I get the feeling you think a players career only begins once he reaches the NBA. Nevermind that Sabonis was an amazing player in Europe, and many have dubbed him the greatest passing big man of all time, to go along with his inside/outside offensive game and solid defense. The Sabonis you saw in the NBA was a shell of the Sabonis at his peak.

Red Robot · Post #18 » by **Red Robot** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:39 am

penbeast0 wrote:He had the most versatile toolset since Walton and with better size; but as great as his offense was, his defense wasn't that great (not terrible; good shotblocker; but not great) since it's all about intensity and defense wins championships. Therefore, would definitely rate him behind Shaq and Hakeem (not that that's anything like an insult since both are among the top 10 of all time).

Not sure about DRob or Ewing. Robinson was actually better than Hakeem in the regular season at his peak, but didn't step up in the postseason. Sabonis, from what I have heard, did step up in Olympics (v. DRob) and big Euro championships, so although I'd take Robinson's O/D combo over Sabas's, Sabonis might have passed him on clutch play . . . very speculative though. Ewing was a step below Robinson so again, very speculative whether Sabonis could match up.

One more point. One of the things that made Sabonis so unique was his shooting range. However, I'm not sure I want one of the 10 most dominating players of all time hanging around the outside at 7'3 . . . it would be like Chris Webber; I would rather have a less versatile but more efficient scorer . . . like Shaq whose range is barely longer than a dunk. Interesting player; basically Bill Walton without an NBA championship (or All-NBA/All-Def teams) to his name . . .

I disagree that he wasn't a great defensive player. At the beginning of his NBA career (most representative of his prime IMO) he was the best defensive player on a very good defensive team. As the years went on, credit for the Blazers' defense needs to be spread a little thinner to an accumulating cast of good defenders, but Sabas was probably still the best on the team at 38. For his career, he's like tenth all-time in Dean Oliver's defensive rating, and most of that sample happened when he was way past his prime. I guess the merits of that stat can be debated, but by at least one metric he was a phenomenal defender.

I personally don't find his inside-out play a disadvantage. His scoring efficiency compares favorably to Ewing's, Hakeem's, and Robinson's at the same age. And it let him use his passing weapon.

I agree he wouldn't have been as good as Hakeem or Shaq, but it seems likely his NBA career would have been better than Ewing's.

Red Robot · Post #19 » by **Red Robot** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:05 am

One thing makes me doubt him as an all-time great, though. I'm not sure he ever had his skills and his body at the same time. He had some injuries relatively early in his international career that left him at something less than his athletic peak. By the time he got to the ACB, he wasn't nearly the run-and-jump athlete that he was in the USSR. Meanwhile, his passing skills didn't develop completely until he was in the NBA. He had his shot by the time he got to the ACB, but that probably wasn't there in his backboard-breaking youth. He was a fantastic player when he was younger, but his game was different than what we saw in Portland. If you combined Sabonis at his physical peak with Sabonis at his technical peak, you would have one of the best ever. The problem is, that player probably never existed.

That Nicka · Post #20 » by **That Nicka** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:29 am

The Next Big Thing wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I get the feeling you think a players career only begins once he reaches the NBA. Nevermind that Sabonis was an amazing player in Europe, and many have dubbed him the greatest passing big man of all time, to go along with his inside/outside offensive game and solid defense. The Sabonis you saw in the NBA was a shell of the Sabonis at his peak.

Just about any NBA player can dominate Euro-leagues... Anthony Parker was a Euro-league MVP and he wouldnt start on most teams in the NBA... Sabonis was a great player, but considering he wasnt playing against the best (in his prime) NO ONE can just automatically assume that he would be better than people who dominated the NBA like Moses, Hakeem, Shaq and Kareem... I dont have any problem saying he would have been as good as a Patrick Ewing had he played in the NBA in his prime... But to say he could have been the 2nd best center EVER had he played in the NBA in his prime is ridiculous imo