David Lee vs Joakim Noah

some_rand · Post #1 » by **some_rand** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:37 am

who you got

Kosta · Post #2 » by **Kosta** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:49 am

Noah for me, he's been playing well for the Bulls when given playing time and they seem to rave about him a lot, more so than Ty Thomas. Noah seems to be more talented and has some nice offensive potential to go along with his hustle and defense.

ponder276 · Post #3 » by **ponder276** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:51 am

Noah is underrated. Very good rebounder and defender, with decent offensive potential (fairly explosive athlete with a decent jump hook). Lee has great hustle, but Noah has even better hustle.

Looking only at the numbers:

David Lee:
Born in 1983, 3rd year player, listed at 6'9"
10.6 ppg, 8.1 rpg in 29.1 mpg

Joakim Noah:
Born in 1985, rookie, listed at 6'11"
6.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg in 19.3 mpg
9.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg if you adjust to 29.1 mpg

Re: other stats. Noah is statistically better in blocks, steals and assists, but Lee is shooting higher percentages. Their stats are overall similar, but Noah plays better d, is 2 years younger, has better size, and just seems to have a fair bit more upside. Noah can become a solid starting C, which is pretty valuable.

edit: Kosta, you stole my offensive potential, hustle and defense points

Great minds think alike I guess

Jemini80 · Post #4 » by **Jemini80** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:59 am

can we delete this thread, pretending David Lee is good and thus worth a mid-first rounder in a trade is the only hope the Knicks have to rebuild.

btw, David Lee is the worst defensive big man on the Knicks besides Randolph Morris. But he rebounds, dunks, hustles, and is white, so everyone loves him.

Kosta · Post #5 » by **Kosta** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:17 am

Jemini80 wrote:can we delete this thread, pretending David Lee is good and thus worth a mid-first rounder in a trade is the only hope the Knicks have to rebuild.

btw, David Lee is the worst defensive big man on the Knicks besides Randolph Morris. But he rebounds, dunks, hustles, and is white, so everyone loves him.

I think the word is on the street, he's regressed this season and although playing on the Knicks has contributed to that, his value isn't as high as it was before this season. Leave it to Isiah to let a player's stock drop, he could have packaged one of your malcontents along with Lee for a decent return this past summer.

Post #6 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:23 am

I happen to be a Bulls fan, and I really like Lee.

Just imagine what he could do with someone feeding him open looks, and a shotblocking center to forgive his defensive mistakes.

But with that said, I still like Noah's upside better. If he just gain 20 pounds, he'll be worlds better.

gavran · Post #7 » by **gavran** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:14 am

Kosta wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think the word is on the street, he's regressed this season and although playing on the Knicks has contributed to that, his value isn't as high as it was before this season. Leave it to Isiah to let a player's stock drop, he could have packaged one of your malcontents along with Lee for a decent return this past summer.

How did he regress? He averages 1.6 rebound less, because Randolph averages 10+. He's fg% dropped, but it's sill 55+%, and only because he's shooting more midrange jumpers. I'd take Lee easily. Noah didn't prove anything yet, while Lee already averaged duoble-double once. He has more potential though, and if he has the work ethic of Lee, than he'll be better as soon as next year.

Jemini80 · Post #8 » by **Jemini80** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:31 am

gavran wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How did he regress? He averages 1.6 rebound less, because Randolph averages 10+. He's fg% dropped, but it's sill 55+%, and only because he's shooting more midrange jumpers. I'd take Lee easily. Noah didn't prove anything yet, while Lee already averaged duoble-double once. He has more potential though, and if he has the work ethic of Lee, than he'll be better as soon as next year.

Noah plays defense, Lee is allergic to defense. The only thing Lee is good at, is fouling someone soft enough to allow them to make a 3 point play. And Lee is not averaging less rpg because of Randolph considering Randolph's rpg are down as well. Lee is averaging less rpg because he hasn't improved. He is sloppy with the ball, and is turnover prone in the post. He is also a very selfish rebounder, he goes for boards but doesn't box out his man, which is just unforgivable for a big man to do.

he hasn't regressed, he just is the same exact player he was last year and the year before that, except his FT shooting is better, and now he is allowed to shoot (which isn't really that good of a thing considering he can't make a mid-range jumper unless he is wide open). If instead of trying to become a better shooter, Lee had spent time improving his defensive game, he would actually be a starter.

Post #9 » by **SOUL** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:35 am

Your whole team doesnt play D though, its hard to mask his.. I see a lot of Knicks games and hes easily your best player most of the time. I'd take him for Arroyo + 2008 draft pick (20's) prolly.. dunno if you'd do it

Jemini80 · Post #10 » by **Jemini80** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:45 am

It would be fine if it was just his help defense that sucks, but he can't hold his ground against any big man, and he can't keep any big man in front of him. I mean there was a night Orlando was blowing us out, Foyle came in, and Foyle began to just embarrass Lee.

He is just horribly inefficient on the offensive end when he isn't dunking hte ball too. The last couple of games we have been force feeding the ball to him in the post (try to inflate his stats since i assume he is getting traded this summer), and he is just bad. He doesn't pass from the post either, he honestly is so much worse than Randolph, but gets a pass because Randolph's yearly salary is about 5 mil more than it should be. Lee is probably going to want some insane contract like Sideshow bob wanted, so I would just get rid of him this summer for picks.

I mean this would be two forwards in a row we have traded a year late. The year artest got traded for Peja, all the Pacers wanted for Artest was Frye, and isiah turned it down.

Last year we could have gotten so much for Lee, and this summer we could have gotten Artest for lee, and the genius turns it down.

I hope for some reason Phoenix like Lee enough to be interested in Rose's expiring, Lee, and Balkman for Diaw and one or both of their 1st rounders.

Elway=GOAT · Post #11 » by **Elway=GOAT** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:11 pm

Jemini80 wrote:It would be fine if it was just his help defense that sucks, but he can't hold his ground against any big man, and he can't keep any big man in front of him. I mean there was a night Orlando was blowing us out, Foyle came in, and Foyle began to just embarrass Lee.

He is just horribly inefficient on the offensive end when he isn't dunking hte ball too. The last couple of games we have been force feeding the ball to him in the post (try to inflate his stats since i assume he is getting traded this summer), and he is just bad. He doesn't pass from the post either, he honestly is so much worse than Randolph, but gets a pass because Randolph's yearly salary is about 5 mil more than it should be. Lee is probably going to want some insane contract like Sideshow bob wanted, so I would just get rid of him this summer for picks.

I mean this would be two forwards in a row we have traded a year late. The year artest got traded for Peja, all the Pacers wanted for Artest was Frye, and isiah turned it down.

Last year we could have gotten so much for Lee, and this summer we could have gotten Artest for lee, and the genius turns it down.

I hope for some reason Phoenix like Lee enough to be interested in Rose's expiring, Lee, and Balkman for Diaw and one or both of their 1st rounders.

They would just become valuable, more productive bench players. I hope that deal happens too, our first instead of ATL'S first if we take it this year. That deal would just make the Knicks run in a big circle, lets trade expiring contracts, young players(maybe not stars but can be solid 7-8 guys) for another bad contract, a guy that dosent play D, looks scared out there and would be another bad fit for the Knicks.

Trust me dude, if that trade ever went down, it would take about a month into the regular season maybe two, till you realise holy ****! This was sopposed to be a change year for the knicks and we just repeated the same process we have done for the last 10 years!

Post #12 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:54 pm

Noah easyyyyyyyyyyyy

He's a really athletic 7-footer, he's a tremendous passer, a good defender and rebounder, has a working offensive game, and has a great passion for the game. Loads of upside still....

David Lee rebounds well, and hustles.......

some_rand · Post #13 » by **some_rand** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 6:53 am

yeah thats what i thought noah pretty much does everything lee does except he can play C and is a much better defender

Post #14 » by **Young_Star11** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 10:10 am

Noah for me.

He's younger, shown the ability to defend.

He can be a true center in the NBA.

Lee can't.