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prime Dream vs prime Shaq
Posted: Wed Apr 9, 2008 8:59 pm
by mtMD
who would you pick as the better player; which one had more impact on both sides of the court?
this poll was posted up on a rockets forum and you can pretty much guess the result.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:23 am
by JordansBulls
Hakeem was better on both ends, however Shaq was more dominant. Depends on what you want really. It's kinda like comparing Bird and Magic IMO.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:41 am
by Kobay
There ain't no comparison here, its too easy. No ones better than Hakeem. The guy is everything you wanted. The guy was real beast and just toyed with players. And unlike shaq he was no liability on pick and roll and FTs.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:14 am
by Texas Longhorns
Hakeem, he did on both sides of the floor in his prime.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:42 am
by Harry Palmer
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:37 am
by dub81
Nobody could not stop a prime Shaq.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:52 am
by Jemini80
so everyone could stop a prime shaq? Nice double negative above me.
Hakeem for me easily. I still pick him over Jordan when you redo that draft. Notice how no one ever mentions the Dream being picked over MJ, only Bowie.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:20 am
by Texas Longhorns
I think Hakeem had pressure on him after MJ showed his real talent in the NBA. Hakeem then emerged as an even better player than his days during Phi Slamma Jamma.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:40 am
by Harry Palmer
Texas Longhorns wrote:I think Hakeem had pressure on him after MJ showed his real talent in the NBA.
Hakeem took a team to the Finals...beating one of the best Showtime Lakers and losing to the best ever of the Bird Celtics only after his second star went down with a knee injury that wrecked his career...in his second NBA season, when MJ was still years away from his first ever single playoff game victory.
That's the thing people don't get about Hakeem. He had support early, and did incredible, taking a team to the Finals as a soph in probably the best era of NBA basketball. Then Sampson went down with the knee, and Hakeem literally had junk, absolute and utter junk, to play with until VERY late in his prime, at which point he made it back to the Finals and won 2, before his career wound down with injuries.
But if Sampson never gets injured, or of Hakeem gets Pippen and MJ has to make do with the likes of Sleepy Floyd, Vernon Maxwell and Larry Smith as his second star, I think we'd have seen a very different dynasty, and quite possibly a very different favorite as the GOAT.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:28 am
by Baller 24
Harry Palmer wrote:
Bingo, there really wasn't a better all around center.
Shaq during a 2005 interview wrote:
"It all started with Hakeem. In my mind, it all ends with Hakeem. He's No. 1. No question. Always will be. I saw it up close."
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:47 am
by big123
Olajuwon was the way more talented player and had more of an all-around/mixture of an offensive game. He was a nightmare for slow Centers.
Shaq was about as dominate this league has ever seen under or around the hoop. Once he got in deep, it was over.
Olajuwon's skills made him a great and dominate player, while Shaq's stature helped dearly with his dominance.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:35 pm
by JordansBulls
Harry Palmer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Hakeem took a team to the Finals...beating one of the best Showtime Lakers and losing to the best ever of the Bird Celtics only after his second star went down with a knee injury that wrecked his career...in his second NBA season, when MJ was still years away from his first ever single playoff game victory.
That's the thing people don't get about Hakeem. He had support early, and did incredible, taking a team to the Finals as a soph in probably the best era of NBA basketball. Then Sampson went down with the knee, and Hakeem literally had junk, absolute and utter junk, to play with until VERY late in his prime, at which point he made it back to the Finals and won 2, before his career wound down with injuries.
But if Sampson never gets injured, or of Hakeem gets Pippen and MJ has to make do with the likes of Sleepy Floyd, Vernon Maxwell and Larry Smith as his second star, I think we'd have seen a very different dynasty, and quite possibly a very different favorite as the GOAT.
Hakeem got Pippen and had Barkley and they failed to get out of the 1st round. Don't say anything that they were old because the Bulls were the oldest team in the league and won the title and this with Pippen missing over half the season and being injured in the finals.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:24 pm
by Jordan23Forever
Shaq. Pretty close, but clearly Shaq imo.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:01 pm
by rsavaj
I think Hakeem was more talented, but Shaq was more dominant.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:08 pm
by Myth_Breaker
Harry Palmer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Hakeem took a team to the Finals...beating one of the best Showtime Lakers and losing to the best ever of the Bird Celtics only after his second star went down with a knee injury that wrecked his career...in his second NBA season, when MJ was still years away from his first ever single playoff game victory.
That's the thing people don't get about Hakeem. He had support early, and did incredible, taking a team to the Finals as a soph in probably the best era of NBA basketball. Then Sampson went down with the knee, and Hakeem literally had junk, absolute and utter junk, to play with until VERY late in his prime, at which point he made it back to the Finals and won 2, before his career wound down with injuries.
But if Sampson never gets injured, or of Hakeem gets Pippen and MJ has to make do with the likes of Sleepy Floyd, Vernon Maxwell and Larry Smith as his second star, I think we'd have seen a very different dynasty, and quite possibly a very different favorite as the GOAT.
Great point I always like to repeat, though I wouldn't declare Hakeem as GOAT then anyway.
BTW, I'm going with Olajuwon over Shaq by slight margin. Though different, they were overall similarly dominant. The tiebreaker for me is Hakeem's being better leader and more beneficial for team chemistry. I mean, this guy was able to coexist even with Mad Max Maxwell (at least until Drexler's trade forced the latter to the bench), while Shaquille feuded not only with Kobe, but also with Nick Anderson, Penny or Eddie Jones, not to mention multiple coaches. WTF?
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:28 pm
by tsherkin
I think the defense is what ultimately sets this in Hakeem's favor but there's a case to be made for Shaq because even Olajuwon couldn't stop him and he was only a year removed from the second of consecutive DPOYs.
But defensively? Hakeem exerted an impact on D against which Shaq's best effort pales considerably.
EDIT: That said, let's not ignore that Dream was maybe the most triple-teamed player in NBA history, or close to it. He was filthy on offense.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:46 pm
by Magz50
Hakeem pretty easy.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:11 pm
by Jordan23Forever
I honestly can't believe that so many people are taking Dream over Shaq in their primes. I mean, Hakeem has probably a top 6-7 prime ever, but Shaq's is top 4. Shaq was averaging absurd numbers like 37/16/3/59% FG with entire teams geared to stop him and 3 guys hanging off him on every possession. Dude was unstoppable. Yeah, yeah -- "defense." Shaq was no slouch defensively, especially in the traditional big man sense (post defense and interior intimidation).
I'd take prime Shaq over Olajuwon if I wanted to win a playoff series, and that's how I usually determine who the better player is when things are relatively close otherwise.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:19 pm
by Milan24
Jordan23Forever wrote:I honestly can't believe that so many people are taking Dream over Shaq in their primes. I mean, Hakeem has probably a top 6-7 prime ever, but Shaq's is top 4. Shaq was averaging absurd numbers like 37/16/3/59% FG with entire teams geared to stop him and 3 guys hanging off him on every possession. Dude was unstoppable. Yeah, yeah -- "defense." Shaq was no slouch defensively, especially in the traditional big man sense (post defense and interior intimidation).
I'd take prime Shaq over Olajuwon if I wanted to win a playoff series, and that's how I usually determine who the better player is when things are relatively close otherwise.
??? When did that happen?
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:23 pm
by JordansBulls
Jordan23Forever wrote:
I'd take prime Shaq over Olajuwon if I wanted to win a playoff series, and that's how I usually determine who the better player is when things are relatively close otherwise.
Yep that is always the measuring stick, how you perform when it matters most.
Just like their is absolutely no difference between Hakeem and Drob in the regular season, but they way they play in the playoffs the gap becomes wide.