RealGM

Boston
Key Players: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen

Toronto
Key Players: Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon, TJ Ford

Philadelphia
Key Players: Andre Igoudala, Sam Dalembert, Andre Miller

New Jersey
Key Players: Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Devin Harris

New York
Key Players: Jamaal Crawford, Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry

Rules for voting: You are NOT voting for the best team, but who has the brightest future and how many assets they have and draft picks and how well the roster is built.

This is actually a very interesting topic, but it doesn't really belong here. Moving to the Player Comparison board.

I would say Toronto and Philly.

Boston's core are in their prime and could be on a decline in the next couple of years.

Toronto and Philly both have good young cores which they are building around.

Toronto has a bevy of expiring contracts, a good amount of talent and a young former #1 pick. As long as the right moves are made, everyone stays healthy and players develop its a bright future.

Philly is also an up and comer [came out of nowhere. Everyone was talking about the Cats, Bucks, Bulls, and even the Knicks in the off season, but Philly has just exploded] with great young core peices in Iggy, Louis, Thad, and Sammy. Andre has been a great floor general and has a high value, so good moves can still be made. I'm not aware that they have to many exiring contracts to swing deals with but they also have a bright future.

Unless Glen Davis, Powe, and Rondo become All-Stars over night, Boston is in a win now, forget about later mode. IMO, if they can't win a championship with the "Big Three" the whole thing is a failure. The big contracts of Garnett, Allen and Peirce are great trading chips when they start to expire [and when their ability starts to plummet] but they look destined for the lottery after the "Big Three" is gone. With role players like House, Cassell, Brown, and Posey also up there in age, they have very little young talent.

New York is a mess. I seriously doubt that LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and crew opt out of their contracts to go to NY. Why would they? NY has little talent, and is paying through the nose for that lack of talent. I don't se anything special for them. Curry, Zach, Crawford, and Marbury's expiring contract are some trading chips, along with Balkman and Lee, but they need some good lotto picks and a lot of time to fix their situation.

New Jersey is out of the playoffs for the first time in a while, and has a losing record. They did great in the Kidd trade IMO and with guys like Carter and Jefferson and Krstic being movable assets they can still swing some young talent over, but it looks like a few lotto picks are in store for the team to get back on its feet. Harris is a great young pointguard, and they have decent young role players ins Sean, Nachbar Boone, Diop, Williams, Wright but they will need much more to get back into the lime light.

Philly

What hurts Toronto's case here is that two of their best players play the same position. If they had someone like Thaddeus Young you would need to pick them.

Choker wrote:What hurts Toronto's case here is that two of their best players play the same position. If they had someone like Thaddeus Young you would need to pick them.

In the offseason I'm 90% sure one of them will be packaged for a legit swingman. I like Toronto's situation with $20mill in expirings, two upper tier PG's, Bosh, Bargnani and no outstanding picks. Our management is also pretty good. I think Bosh is the best up and coming player to build around in the division, so Toronto gets my vote.

Boston does not have a bright longterm future but for the next 2-3yrs I see them contending which is the goal of all of these teams.

New York is a financial disaster, lets pretend they don't exist.

New Jersey if they go into a full rebuild might be in a good situation. They have Harris, Williams, Kristic, picks from Dallas and I'm sure they can turn Jefferson and Carter into expirings + prospects + picks. If they wait on moving Carter though it could bite them in the ass and I don't think Jefferson's value will get any higher than it is today.

Philadelphia is in a pretty good situation themselves. Dalembert has emerged as a legit Center and not some overpaid big body. Igoudala looks good(still don't think he's a legit 1st option, but he's pretty damn good) and Miller has been phenomenal. He'll be 33 next year and an UFA so I think the way he's handled will determine the progress of this team. I think they will have a hard time finding his replacement. Also Thad has been a bright spot. I'll eat crow because I thought that he would be a total scrub.

1. Toronto
2. Philadelphia
3. New Jersey
4. Boston
5. New York

Boston, the rest of the rosters suck and you don't automatically get your time just because you suck right now.

celticfan42487 wrote:Boston, the rest of the rosters suck and you don't automatically get your time just because you suck right now.

You wouldn't have said this last year. You would have said celtics because of al jefferson and the other young guys.

DanTown8587 wrote:Boston
Key Players: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen

Toronto
Key Players: Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon, TJ Ford

Philadelphia
Key Players: Andre Igoudala, Sam Dalembert, Andre Miller

New Jersey
Key Players: Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Devin Harris

New York
Key Players: Jamaal Crawford, Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry

Rules for voting: You are NOT voting for the best team, but who has the brightest future and how many assets they have and draft picks and how well the roster is built.

I'll make this easier for everyone.
Hoopshype pages for salaries.
Red = players about 26 or under.
Black = veteran players in prime.
Blue = basically irrelevant to future.
Italics = the main contributors, more or less.
Draft picks in parentheses.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston.htm
9 Rondo, Rajon G 6-1 171 2/22/86 1 Kentucky
42 Allen, Tony G 6-4 213 1/11/82 3 Oklahoma State
11 Davis, Glen FC 6-9 289 1/1/86 R LSU
43 Perkins, Kendrick C 6-10 280 11/10/84 4 None
0 Powe, Leon F 6-8 240 1/22/84 1 California
13 Pruitt, Gabe G 6-4 170 4/19/86 R USC
20 Allen, Ray SG 6-5 205 7/20/75 11 Connecticut
5 Garnett, Kevin F 6-11 253 5/19/76 12 None
34 Pierce, Paul GF 6-6 230 10/13/77 9 Kansas
50 House, Eddie SG 6-1 175 5/14/78 7 Arizona State
41 Posey, James GF 6-8 217 1/13/77 8 Xavier
93 Brown, P.J. FC 6-11 239 10/14/69 14 Louisiana Tech
28 Cassell, Sam PG 6-3 185 11/18/69 14 Florida State
66 Pollard, Scot C 6-11 265 2/12/75 10 Kansas
44 Scalabrine, Brian FC 6-9 235 3/18/78 6 USC
(Has own 1sts except 2009)

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm
34 Harris, Devin PG 6-3 185 2/27/83 3 Wisconsin
12 Krstic, Nenad FC 7-0 260 7/25/83 3 None
1 Williams, Marcus G 6-3 205 12/3/85 1 Connecticut
51 Williams, Sean FC 6-10 235 9/13/86 R Boston College
2 Boone, Josh FC 6-10 245 11/21/84 1 Connecticut
14 Diop, DeSagana FC 7-0 280 1/30/82 6 None
13 Ager, Maurice GF 6-5 202 2/9/84 1 Michigan State
15 Carter, Vince GF 6-6 220 1/26/77 9 North Carolina
24 Jefferson, Richard SF 6-7 230 6/21/80 6 Arizona
7 Nachbar, Bostjan SF 6-9 221 7/3/80 5 None
6 Swift, Stromile FC 6-9 230 11/21/79 7 LSU
44 Hassell, Trenton GF 6-5 233 3/4/79 6 Austin Peay
22 Van Horn, Keith SF 6-10 240 10/23/75 10 Utah
10 Armstrong, Darrell PG 6-1 180 6/22/68 13 Fayetteville State
(Has own 1sts, plus Dallas 1sts in 2008 and 2010)

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
32 Balkman, Renaldo F 6-8 208 7/14/84 1 South Carolina
21 Chandler, Wilson F 6-8 220 5/10/87 R DePaul
25 Collins, Mardy G 6-6 220 8/4/84 1 Temple
42 Lee, David FC 6-9 240 4/29/83 2 Florida
34 Curry, Eddy C 6-11 285 12/5/82 6 None
4 Robinson, Nate G 5-9 180 5/31/84 2 Washington
5 Morris, Randolph FC 6-11 260 1/2/86 1 Kentucky
20 Jeffries, Jared GF 6-11 240 11/25/81 5 Indiana
11 Crawford, Jamal G 6-5 190 3/20/80 7 Michigan
3 Marbury, Stephon PG 6-2 205 2/20/77 11 Georgia Tech
50 Randolph, Zach PF 6-9 260 7/16/81 6 Michigan State
23 Richardson, Quentin GF 6-6 235 4/13/80 7 DePaul
2 Jones, Fred GF 6-2 225 3/11/79 5 Oregon
13 James, Jerome FC 7-1 285 11/17/75 9 Florida A&M
31 Rose, Malik F 6-7 255 11/23/74 11 Drexel
(Has own 1sts except 2010)

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/philadelphia.htm
25 Carney, Rodney GF 6-6 204 4/5/84 1 Memphis
1 Dalembert, Samuel C 6-11 250 5/10/81 6 Seton Hall
9 Iguodala, Andre GF 6-6 207 1/28/84 3 Arizona
23 Williams, Louis G 6-2 175 10/27/86 2 None
21 Young, Thaddeus F 6-8 220 6/21/88 R Georgia Tech
30 Evans, Reggie PF 6-8 245 5/18/80 5 Iowa
33 Green, Willie SG 6-4 201 7/28/81 4 Detroit
35 Hill, Herbert FC 6-10 240 10/1/84 R Providence
42 Randolph, Shavlik F 6-10 240 11/24/83 2 Duke
20 Amundson, Louis F 6-9 225 12/7/82 1 UNLV
14 Smith, Jason FC 7-0 240 3/2/86 R Colorado State
7 Miller, Andre PG 6-2 200 3/19/76 8 Utah
12 Ollie, Kevin PG 6-2 195 12/27/72 10 Connecticut
52 Booth, Calvin C 6-11 250 5/7/76 8 Penn State
(Has own 1sts, plus 2009 1st from Utah)

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm
7 Bargnani, Andrea FC 6-10 250 10/26/85 1 None
4 Bosh, Chris FC 6-10 230 3/24/84 4 Georgia Tech
8 Calderon, Jose PG 6-3 210 9/28/81 2 None
11 Ford, T.J. PG 6-0 165 3/24/83 4 Texas
33 Moon, Jamario SF 6-8 205 6/13/80 R Meridian (MS) CC
18 Parker, Anthony GF 6-6 215 6/19/75 10 Bradley
14 Graham, Joey GF 6-7 225 6/11/82 2 Oklahoma State
43 Humphries, Kris F 6-9 235 2/6/85 3 Minnesota
20 Delfino, Carlos SG 6-6 230 8/29/82 3 None
24 Kapono, Jason GF 6-8 215 2/4/81 4 UCLA
12 Nesterovic, Rasho C 7-0 255 5/30/76 9 None
15 Garbajosa, Jorge FC 6-9 245 12/19/77 1 None
1 Brezec, Primoz C 7-1 252 10/2/79 6 None
9 Baston, Maceo FC 6-9 230 5/29/76 5 Michigan

The brightest future for the next 3 years belongs to the Celtics. Beyond that, no one can really predict. But if rosters and assets don't change (and they always do), I'd say the Sixers look like the team best set up for "the future", with Iguodala so young and surrounded by a well-balanced good young core. Followed by the Raptors, with Bosh still only 24 and maybe having a sidekick in Bargnani. Followed by the Celtics, because Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic after Iguodala and Bosh. New Jersey's got interesting young big men, but I'm not a big believer in their young guards, they better hope Dallas sucks. New York has vaguely interesting young role players, otherwise it's a mess.

wigglestrue wrote:because Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic after Iguodala and Bosh

You are kidding right? Please tell me you are.

Going on pure talent and defining young as 26 or under, there are a host of better young players in the Atlantic than Rondo.

Bosh, Iggy, Thad Young, Ford, Calderon, Harris, Dalembert, ect.

Off the top of my head.

Plus, that list is faulty. Anthony Parker is 30+ and Moon is 27.

T-Spot wrote:You are kidding right? Please tell me you are.

Going on pure talent and defining young as 26 or under, there are a host of better young players in the Atlantic than Rondo.

Bosh, Iggy, Thad Young, Ford, Calderon, Harris, Dalembert, ect.

Off the top of my head.

Pure talent alone? Why?
Don't you think there's a reason I wrote the words...
Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic after Iguodala and Bosh?
Hell, even on talent alone:

Rondo > Ford, Calderon, Thaddeus, Harris, Dalembert.

I'll take boston pretty easily, they are easily the best for the foreseeable future, and will have plenty of trading chips all around the same few seasons when the big three expire

wigglestrue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Pure talent alone? Why?
Don't you think there's a reason I wrote the words...
Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic after Iguodala and Bosh?
Hell, even on talent alone:

Rondo > Ford, Calderon, Thaddeus, Harris, Dalembert.

Rondo Per 40

PPG:13.3
APG:6.6
RPG:5.3
FG%:48.7
3FG:26
FT%:60.9

Opp FG%:48
Opp PER:17.8

Ford Per 40

PPG:20
APG:10.5
RPG:3.4
FG%:46.2
3FG:27
FT%:87.5

Opp FG%:46
Opp PER:17.7

Calderon Per 40

PPG:15.2
APG:11
RPG:4
FG%:52.5
3FG:43.3
FT%:91

Opp FG%:50.9
Opp PER:17

Harris Per 40

PPG:18.5
APG:7.5
RPG:4.1
FG%:44
3FG:32
FT%:84

Opp FG%:46
Opp PER:18.8

Rondo isn't even the best young point guard statistically in the Atlantic. Add to that you want to say he is better than a great defensive big man [big>small] in Dalembert and a gob of raw talent and potential in Thad Young? Rondo isn't even close to the stratosphere Bosh and Iggy are in, unless you have major homer vision glasses on.

Rondo isn't even the best young point guard statistically in the Atlantic. Add to that you want to say he is better than a great defensive big man [big>small] in Dalembert and a gob of raw talent and potential in Thad Young? Rondo isn't even close to the stratosphere Bosh and Iggy are in, unless you have major homer vision glasses on.

Your misuse of stats notwithstanding, Rondo is the best young PG in the Atlantic. He is a much better defender than either Calderon or Ford, and that fact is something only a Raptors homer would contest. Also, isn't Calderon going to be 27 in a few months? If he's even eligible now, he won't be a "young PG" much longer. Also, Dalembert is a "great defensive big man"? LOL! Blocks don't necessarily reflect defense, as you probably know. And where did Rondo's own "gob of raw talent and potential" disappear to? Kid's only 22, he's not some grizzled veteran who's hit a ceiling or something. Just because Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic besides Bosh and Iguodala, doesn't mean he's that close to them either, so don't go putting my words in my mouth. But he is better than Harris, Calderon, Ford, Dalembert, and whoever else is in the conversation. It might be hard for you to acknowledge because it undermines your desperate stat-dropping, but Rondo is playing with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen on a team that has won 64 games -- so the stats (even the per minute stats) don't tell the whole story. You'll see that it's not just a Boston homer thing when he gets named to the All-Defense team.

wigglestrue wrote:

Rondo isn't even the best young point guard statistically in the Atlantic. Add to that you want to say he is better than a great defensive big man [big>small] in Dalembert and a gob of raw talent and potential in Thad Young? Rondo isn't even close to the stratosphere Bosh and Iggy are in, unless you have major homer vision glasses on.

Your misuse of stats notwithstanding, Rondo is the best young PG in the Atlantic. He is a much better defender than either Calderon or Ford, and that fact is something only a Raptors homer would contest. Also, isn't Calderon going to be 27 in a few months? If he's even eligible now, he won't be a "young PG" much longer. Also, Dalembert is a "great defensive big man"? LOL! Blocks don't necessarily reflect defense, as you probably know. And where did Rondo's own "gob of raw talent and potential" disappear to? Kid's only 22, he's not some grizzled veteran who's hit a ceiling or something. Just because Rondo is the best young player in the Atlantic besides Bosh and Iguodala, doesn't mean he's that close to them either, so don't go putting my words in my mouth. But he is better than Harris, Calderon, Ford, Dalembert, and whoever else is in the conversation. It might be hard for you to acknowledge because it undermines your desperate stat-dropping, but Rondo is playing with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen on a team that has won 64 games -- so the stats (even the per minute stats) don't tell the whole story. You'll see that it's not just a Boston homer thing when he gets named to the All-Defense team.

1. Rondo is not the best young point guard in the Atlantic. Rondo is a better defender than Ford or Calderon. So, if you statement was, Rondo is the best young defensive point guard in the Atlantic, it might carry some truth.

Unfortunately, Rondo severely lacks the floor vision, play-making ability, shooting touch, scoring ability, basket ball IQ, and leadership qualities that Ford, Calderon and Harris all have. Sorry.

2. Name me better young defensive big man than Dalembert.

3. Rondo has simply improve little [again, per minute] since last season. That is why he doesn't have "the gobs of raw talent an potential" an athletic swing man like Young.

4. You have yet to provide any proof statistically or other wise to back up your defunct statement that Rondo is the third best young player in the East. So I guess my "desperate stat dropping" > your apparent lack of proof.

5. All-Defense? Deron, Calderon, Ford, Billups, Parker, Nash [most part], Andre Miller, Paul, Fisher, Alston, Iverson, Kidd [most part], Felton, produce around their season average or above their season average against Boston. He is a good defender, but from what I've seen and the stats I've seen, he is not the lock down defender everyone makes him out to be.

You argument has basically boiled down to " LOL HE IS 2ND bestest in Atlantic! Ermm...he defend great!..He is better than Harris, Calderon, Ford, everyone...HE JUST IS.

1. Rondo is not the best young point guard in the Atlantic. Rondo is a better defender than Ford or Calderon. So, if you statement was, Rondo is the best young defensive point guard in the Atlantic, it might carry some truth.

Unfortunately, Rondo severely lacks the floor vision, play-making ability, shooting touch, scoring ability, basket ball IQ, and leadership qualities that Ford, Calderon and Harris all have. Sorry.

You don't have the slightest clue about Rondo.

2. Name me better young defensive big man than Dalembert.

In the Atlantic? Probably none? But he's mediocre on offense. Rondo is a better overall player than Dalembert. Rondo has more impact on a game than Dalembert.

3. Rondo has simply improve little [again, per minute] since last season. That is why he doesn't have "the gobs of raw talent an potential" an athletic swing man like Young.

Utterly false. He went from being perhaps the worst-shooting PG in the NBA to having a soft consistent midrange jumper that any PG in the league would envy. You're blindly looking at stats. You're misinterpreting them. You're giving me the impression you don't even watch games. You're getting close to the point where I doubt anything you will ever type would be worth reading.

4. You have yet to provide any proof statistically or other wise to back up your defunct statement that Rondo is the third best young player in the East. So I guess my "desperate stat dropping" > your apparent lack of proof.

Somehow I don't feel the need to prove anything to you.

5. All-Defense? Deron, Calderon, Ford, Billups, Parker, Nash [most part], Andre Miller, Paul, Fisher, Alston, Iverson, Kidd [most part], Felton, produce around their season average or above their season average against Boston. He is a good defender, but from what I've seen and the stats I've seen, he is not the lock down defender everyone makes him out to be.

Okay buddy.

You argument has basically boiled down to " LOL HE IS 2ND bestest in Atlantic! Ermm...he defend great!..He is better than Harris, Calderon, Ford, everyone...HE JUST IS.

And with that...welcome to wigglestrue's ignore page! Enjoy your stay!

Why is Rondo so hyped and so hated?

He's hated because he's so hyped.

In all honesty, he has ways to go to be on par with what Harris, Ford, Miller, Calderon can do right now.

OhMyBosh wrote:Why is Rondo so hyped and so hated?

He's hated because he's so hyped.

In all honesty, he has ways to go to be on par with what Harris, Ford, Calderon can do right now.

Funny, because he's been there with him all year, except better.

(Removed "Miller" because the context is young PG)

And back on topic:

I don't see the vision of the Knicks yet. However, with good new management, hopefully they will get a high pick in the draft and rebuild fresh. So their future is a bit uncertain.

New Jersey has some nice pieces on their roster. RJ and Vince are both in their primes now, and they still have many more years to go. Harris is their future point guard for the next decade. He has a lot of talent. They will need to acquire some more mobile big men down low.

Toronto has a nice mix of young and old players. However, most of their young players have uncertain futures or potentials that they perhaps will never reach. Aside from Bosh, Calderon and TJ, Toronto does not have a lot of 'sure thing' players. Bargnani is consistently terrible. Joey Graham is still a robot. Parker and Rasho are solid players but are already at their peak. Garbo and Moon aren't exactly young. So I'd say they're right in the middle. Their future is a little better only because TJ and Bosh are both so young.

Philly surprised everyone with the quick development of their young players. Their players are mostly young, athletic, and hungry for wins. This team will most likely have the best future in the next 5 or so years if they continue on with their trend.

Boston's roster is the unanimous favourtie for best roster in the Atlantic (and the entire league). Clearly because of the Big Three. However, their bench has proven to be a big reason for their success as well. The only knock on them is that their key players are mostly in their peaks, nearing it, or past it. When the Big Three are gone, their future is uncertain. They won't have any stars left, but they will have enough money to acquire younger and better talents.

So with all that, I'd rank the current rosters like this:
Boston
Philly
Toronto
New Jersey
New York

And for the future (5+ years):
Philly
Toronto
Boston
New Jersey
New York (we'll just have to wait and see for this one)