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Peja(Prime) Vs. Peja(Now)
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:44 am
by NO-KG-AI
Which version of Peja was better? are they equal?
Peja 03-04: 24.2 ppg, 6.3 rebounds per, 2.1 apg. 48% fg%, 43.3% 3pt, 92.7% ft%.
Peja now: 16.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.2 apg. 43.9%/44.1%/92.6%
So he scores a whole lot less, at a much lower clip, and he can't finish as well due to numerous injuries sapping his athletic ability, but they are equal, right?
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:48 am
by KF10
Umm, are you serious? A Prime Peja was a LEGIT MVP candidate.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:54 am
by kooldude
did he really have much athletic ability to begin with?
Re: Peja(Prime) Vs. Peja(Now)
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:57 am
by Patterns
NO-KG-AI wrote:Which version of Peja was better? are they equal?
Peja 03-04: 24.2 ppg, 6.3 rebounds per, 2.1 apg. 48% fg%, 43.3% 3pt, 92.7% ft%.
Peja now: 16.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.2 apg. 43.9%/44.1%/92.6%
So he scores a whole lot less, at a much lower clip, and he can't finish as well due to numerous injuries sapping his athletic ability, but they are equal, right?
WTF? Is this a joke?
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:02 am
by That Nicka
lol
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:03 am
by pillwenney
Yeah, I'm gonna assume that somebody in another thread tried to make some kind of dumb argument.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:03 am
by BirdIsDaKing
dude....do you know what PRIME means?
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:05 am
by NO-KG-AI
Surely it's just because Paul holds the ball more than Bibby though?
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:09 am
by KF10
NO-KG-AI wrote:Surely it's just because Paul holds the ball more than Bibby though?
Umm, Bibby wasnt even our primary ballhandler for us...It was Webber and Divac...But when Webber went down, it was Divac being the main ballhandler...
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:11 am
by Bgil
"Prime Peja" was one year. Why not compare Peja from two seasons ago in Indy (20ppg on 46% and 40%) to now?
His shooting percentage is only down because 51% of his shots are three's now.
He doesn't finish well because he never really did in the first place. Sac also ran an a gorgeous offense that was open layups and dunks all day.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:14 am
by NO-KG-AI
mitchweber wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna assume that somebody in another thread tried to make some kind of dumb argument.
Bgil wrote:
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:16 am
by Bgil
mitchweber wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna assume that somebody in another thread tried to make some kind of dumb argument.
Nope, the OP is just making a dumb misrepresentation.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:26 am
by NO-KG-AI
Bgil wrote:He hasn't fallen off. You guys just use him like a role player instead of using him like the offensive star of the team
Bgil wrote:the last time Peja wasn't injured or in a messed up situation (Sactown, Indy) he was an All-Star. And I don't mean a Camby, Gasol, Wally type all star that might make it once in the prime of their career when they get lucky... he made it 3 years in a row. He finished first in those crappy offense win shares stat you guys like to quote. Second in total win shares. 4th in MVP voting. 2nd in PPG above Kobe, AI, Duncan, and Garnett.
He's only 28 and he's 8th all-time in made 3 pointers, 4th All-time in ft%, 39th in win share etc.
Paul isn't making Peja now anymore than Mike Bibby and Jason Williams made Peja a couple years ago.
Then OG15 said:
Peja is not the same player he was 4 years ago though, his back problems are not gone, and he has other injuries affecting him, he's just not overexerting himself on this team.
to which you replied:
He had health problems in Sacramento too
og15 wrote:He works a lot less for his offense on the Hornets because instead of moving off the ball and coming of screens a lot to score (while still being assisted though), he's just getting open on the wing or corner and hitting hitting his shots. The Hornets also aren't having him do much interior scoring at all, and his finishing to me has been weaker than other years, he get's blocked too much IMO.
Paul is great at beating his man, drawing a defender, and making the game 5 on 4 on offense, and that saves Peja a lot of trouble. Peja is being assisted on a career high 85% of his made jumpshots, and his previous highs were 77% in Indiana, and 76% in Sacramento in 03-04. This might not be his highest eFG% or TS% (he's not being used to go to the basket much in NOH like mentioned, so he isn't getting FT attempts), but the way he's made to play is keeping him healthy, allowing him to be efficient from the field (still 3rd best eFG% of his career only below his healthier Sacramento years), and he has more energy defensively.
Bgil wrote:That's what happens when you turn Michael Redd into a rich-mans Jason Kapono.
So were you not arguing he is the same Peja?
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:38 am
by a-rod
Bgil wrote:"Prime Peja" was one year. Why not compare Peja from two seasons ago in Indy (20ppg on 46% and 40%) to now?
His shooting percentage is only down because 51% of his shots are three's now.
He doesn't finish well because he never really did in the first place. Sac also ran an a gorgeous offense that was open layups and dunks all day.
Agreed, Byron Scott makes him a spot up shooter because that
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:46 am
by Bgil
So were you not arguing he is the same Peja?
There's a difference between Prime Peja and All-Star Peja. I believe he's still basically the later. He wasn't even able to put up "Prime Peja" numbers in the second half of the season when Chris Webber's gimpy ass showed up. But he can still put up the same numbers that he did in Indy... which had he played for a better team would have made him an all-star.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:01 am
by OmniDEN
kingsfan10 wrote:Umm, are you serious? A Prime Peja was a LEGIT MVP candidate.
No he was not. He just happened to be the best scorer on a very good team which got him MVP recognition ONE year. 24/6/2 are not MVP numbers.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:08 am
by KF10
MeloTelfair wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
No he was not. He just happened to be the best scorer on a very good team which got him MVP recognition ONE year. 24/6/2 are not MVP numbers.
Umm, regardless, of the numbers, he was still a LEGIT MVP candidate. His impact was MVP cablier...
Besides, I wasnt even talking about his numbers...
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:13 am
by Bgil
MeloTelfair wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
No he was not. He just happened to be the best scorer on a very good team which got him MVP recognition ONE year. 24/6/2 are not MVP numbers.
Second in the league in scoring. His numbers were even better before Webber came back. We're talking 25-27ppg. Considering T-Mac led the league with 28ppg, that's impressive. No one expected the Kings to be as good as they were without Webber and they were arguably better because of the offensive shift to Peja.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:28 am
by pillwenney
It's true that Peja is certainly used differently in NO. Whether or not he could be used that way with the right personnel is certainly debatable. But he's still not the player he was a couple of years ago.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:14 am
by Ryoga Hibiki
It's been used like role player because the Hornets don't have much of a passing game.
I don't know if he can do what he used to, but his game never was creating from nothing.