Kevin Garnett vs Walt Frazier, who is considered better?

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu May 1, 2008 7:23 pm

ronnymac2 · Post #2 » by **ronnymac2** » Thu May 1, 2008 7:32 pm

do you mean career-wise? or do you mean who would you rather have on your team?

kooldude · Post #3 » by **kooldude** » Thu May 1, 2008 7:54 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:do you mean career-wise? or do you mean who would you rather have on your team?

I think he means who's better in their prime

cjx · Post #4 » by **cjx** » Thu May 1, 2008 8:03 pm

Garnett has held himself back, but, in all truthfulness, there's only 1 player in the history of the NBA who can handle KG and that's Kareem (FYI, KG = mini-Kareem).

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Thu May 1, 2008 8:41 pm

Normally I go big over small particularly when the big has the defensive skills and superior individual stats of Garnett but unless he takes the Celtics to a championship I have to go with Frazier. He had a bigger defensive impact than Garnett (even including this year!) and his clutch performances and titles give him the edge.

wigglestrue · Post #6 » by **wigglestrue** » Thu May 1, 2008 8:48 pm

Who is considered better? Hmmm, depends on the considerer: Frazier by anyone middle-aged and Garnett by anyone 25 or younger. To me, it's Frazier by a few spots. I have Frazier at around 20th and KG about 25th.

KNICKS1970 · Post #7 » by **KNICKS1970** » Thu May 1, 2008 9:34 pm

Frazier. I think Garnett gets picked first in an "All-Time Fantasy Draft", but I have to give Clyde the nod, because he was one of the great big game performers of all time.

shawngoat23 · Post #8 » by **shawngoat23** » Thu May 1, 2008 11:47 pm

Frazier. He crapped all over one of the greatest teams to play the game, and one of the greatest guards to ever play the game in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals.

36 points, 19 assists, and 5 steals, against arguably the greatest defensive guard of all time? Over West, Wilt, and Baylor?

writerman · Post #9 » by **writerman** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:16 am

cjx wrote:Garnett has held himself back, but, in all truthfulness, there's only 1 player in the history of the NBA who can handle KG and that's Kareem (FYI, KG = mini-Kareem).

In addition to Kareem;

Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
DRob
Thurmond
Duncan
Prime Walton
Gilmore...

That's off the top of my head. I could probably thionk of more...

ronnymac2 · Post #10 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri May 2, 2008 12:36 am

writerman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

In addition to Kareem;

Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
DRob
Thurmond
Duncan
Prime Walton
Gilmore...

That's off the top of my head. I could probably thionk of more...

shaq, dave cowens, moses and karl.....

but wow...i didnt think i would say this, but im goin with frazier. kg is one of my favorite players...hes the most versatile player i have ever seen. But frazier's legendary game 7 is, to me, one of the greatest individual game performances ever. It's in my top 5 for greatest performances ever, actually. For a guard to have similar impact on d as somebody as dominant as kg is saying something. plus walt could score, playmake, and be efficient on offense as a pg. He knew how to dominate a game, while allowing others to facilitate offense (and those knicks teams could pass and run offense very well. look at the individual assist numbers. its amazing to me that frazier got as many assists as he did.). i pick frazier.

cjx · Post #11 » by **cjx** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:21 am

writerman wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

In addition to Kareem;

Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
DRob
Thurmond
Duncan
Prime Walton
Gilmore...

That's off the top of my head. I could probably think of more...

Hmmm, I think out of that list, only Wilt and Hakeem can possibly handle KG, especially if he's playing out of his mind or to his full potential. Even Russell stated that he would find guarding KG difficult because KG would be all over the place offensively and not just near the basket. I know many people will adamantly disagree with my opinion, so I hope no one gets unduly upset with my comments.

writerman · Post #12 » by **writerman** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:03 am

cjx wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Hmmm, I think out of that list, only Wilt and Hakeem can possibly handle KG, especially if he's playing out of his mind or to his full potential. Even Russell stated that he would find guarding KG difficult because KG would be all over the place offensively and not just near the basket. I know many people will adamantly disagree with my opinion, so I hope no one gets unduly upset with my comments.

Well, I do disagree, though I agree Garnett is very talented. However, I've never thought much of his BBall IQ, and all those guys above were big, very mobile, excellent defenders.

You also have to take into account that quite a few of them are not only as tall, but also stronger, they would wear him down trying to defend them.

Basileus777 · Post #13 » by **Basileus777** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:20 am

Easily Frazier.

Basileus777 · Post #14 » by **Basileus777** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:21 am

cjx wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Hmmm, I think out of that list, only Wilt and Hakeem can possibly handle KG, especially if he's playing out of his mind or to his full potential. Even Russell stated that he would find guarding KG difficult because KG would be all over the place offensively and not just near the basket. I know many people will adamantly disagree with my opinion, so I hope no one gets unduly upset with my comments.

You can't be serious...

Even in today's NBA Garnett is far from unstoppable offensively. KG has never been a dominant scorer.

Joseph17 · Post #15 » by **Joseph17** » Fri May 2, 2008 4:59 am

How can you compare a PG with a PF?

Post #16 » by **penbeast0** » Fri May 2, 2008 1:03 pm

Depends what you mean by "handle." If you mean could they do a better job against Garnett than he would do against them, there's a lot of people. If you mean hold Garnett to numbers significantly below his average (composed against an average of the good, the bad, and the ugly), presumably any above average defender could do it.

I think what you mean is keep Garnett from having a major impact on the game by playing enough defense to either take him out of the offense or forcing him to play badly enough that even though he continues to take volume shots, he misses so many he hurts the offense.

If that is the case, there probably isn't a PG, including Gary Payton, that could do that to Frazier since Jerry West, one of the top 5 defensive PGs of all time, was basically toasted by Frazier in the game 7 of the Finals that ronnymac was talking about.

cjx · Post #17 » by **cjx** » Fri May 2, 2008 3:30 pm

Basileus777 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You can't be serious...

Even in today's NBA Garnett is far from unstoppable offensively. KG has never been a dominant scorer.

IMO, KG isn't unstoppable offensively because, as I stated earlier, he limits himself where everything begins, the mind. KG can put up 31 ppg, 14 rpg, and 5 apg if he wasn't convinced that being a good team player means stifling or attenuating individual greatness. KG has produced like a Hall-of-Famer; nevertheless, he has underachieved.

Post #18 » by **penbeast0** » Fri May 2, 2008 6:09 pm

joeyyowee wrote:How can you compare a PG with a PF?

Same way you do when you trade them for each other. Harder than judging true comparables but doable.

shawngoat23 · Post #19 » by **shawngoat23** » Fri May 2, 2008 6:24 pm

cjx wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

IMO, KG isn't unstoppable offensively because, as I stated earlier, he limits himself where everything begins, the mind. KG can put up 31 ppg, 14 rpg, and 5 apg if he wasn't convinced that being a good team player means stifling or attenuating individual greatness. KG has produced like a Hall-of-Famer; nevertheless, he has underachieved.

What in the world does that mean? That's a claim that can be used on a slew of players, including every member of the 1970s New York Knicks, of which Frazier was the leader.

ThaRegul8r · Post #20 » by **ThaRegul8r** » Fri May 2, 2008 7:52 pm

cjx wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

IMO, KG isn't unstoppable offensively because, as I stated earlier, he limits himself where everything begins, the mind. KG can put up 31 ppg, 14 rpg, and 5 apg if he wasn't convinced that being a good team player means stifling or attenuating individual greatness.

Being a good team player is doing what's necessary in order for your team to win. Not a hard concept to understand. And Frazier did what was necessary for the Knicks to win, and they won two championships because of it.