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If he wins a title this year does that put him ahead of Malone and Barkely all time?

He's already better than Barkley, defense counts too. Malone is tougher, not so much peak (though Karl was much the better scorer) as the consistentcy and durablility added to the peak. It would certainly be a better argument if he wins the title though.

He won't rank as greater than Malone, at least not without a ring, because of how long and consistent his career was.

Though, even at all of their career highs, Garnett had the best PER which is a good measure if you don't include defense, and he's far more valuable as a defender than both of them combined....

Hmm...thats tough. I'd take him over Malone IMHO. Just because of all the things he can do for his size, he is very consistent, and if hes not helping in one way, he will help in another way. He is ahead of Barkley for sure IMO, but Malone is hard to break just because of the scoring, but thats not all that matters, as KG on average is a 20pt, 12rebound, 5ast, 3blk monster.

Malone was the far better scorer but imagine if KG had Stockton as a PG throughout his career. There is a huge difference between a guy that averages 30 PPG which is what Malone was to a guy like KG.

Malone was also an elite defensive player as well for his position, though he rarely got the recognition for it. I'm not so sure KG is better than Malone all time. Malone after all won 50+ games every year while KG struggled to make the playoffs year after year.

People dog KG for those T-Wolves, but they were in the playoffs for something like 8 straight years with him, despite horribly lacking talent.

The Wolves had a sub .500 record 3 times in KG's career, his rookie(28 MPG) and second year, and his last year when the team was horrible and inexperienced. from 1999 on, the wolves had 50, 47, 50, 51, 58, 44, and his last season with the wolves, with a weak squad and 32 wins.

People only remember those last two years, where Cassell and Spreewell destroyed the locker room in one, and the next year where Mark Blount, Ricky Davis, Trenton Hassell, and Mike James were the starters for the most part. Look where Ricky and Mark were starting this year, and look how that turned out.

I would have loved to see KG play with a PG of Stockton's caliber for his entire career, and play with a coach who had a functional offensive system, and a solid supporting cast... KG averaged 24 next to Cassell and Spreewell, why wouldn't he average 27-28 with Stockton and Sloan's offense?? The Jazz always play tough defense, even today, despite not having a dominant front court defender, imagine KG inserted into that line up instead of Boozer or Okur....

When I look at their skill sets, it's a no-brainer for me.

KG>Malone>Barkley.

KG has the best skill set.

Malone has had the best career.

Barkley is the guy you want if you need to win a game or series.

I think a ring puts him over Barkley. I think it would take a Finals MVP puts him over Malone, and I doubt he'll win it this year, Pierce is pretty much locked in as MVP if they finish off the Lakers. Despite their wins and all the league of clutch ads, KG has been just about as clutch as the Mailman was in the fourth quarter.

shawngoat23 wrote:KG has the best skill set.

Malone has had the best career.

Barkley is the guy you want if you need to win a game or series.

I actually think Barkley was more skilled than KG.


Malone>Barkley>>>>>>>>>>>>KG

Even with a ring I don't think KG is as good as Malone and maybe not even Barkley...

Malone
Barkley
KG

With a title I can see him being considered better than Barkley, however Barkley was a lot tougher player in the playoffs and tougher to defend. I don't think he is quite up to Malone yet.

If he wins a ring this year, he'll be around Barkley's range or slightly ahead. He has the other accolades and he plays both sides of the ball at a high level (defensively he's one of the best all-time).

Jordan23Forever wrote:If he wins a ring this year, he'll be around Barkley's range or slightly ahead. He has the other accolades and he plays both sides of the ball at a high level (defensively he's one of the best all-time).

An honest question for you:

If the Rockets had won a title with Charles would you honestly think hes a better player than you think now?


IMHO:

If you have a ring or not doesnt realy change how good of a player you are.

To everyone

If your John Paxson and time traveler comes to you before the draft and says that Beasley is a HoFer with no rings but Rose will win 4 rings. Who are you going to draft??? Afterall theres no guarentee Rose ever wins playing for the Bulls. Wouldnt you rather have the HoF player and take your chances?


If Im picking teams in a pickup game in which the winning team gets 10mill I dont look at Charles and say "Lets not take him hes never won anything" I take the best player and if its Charles hes on my team.


As far as career goes I dont think KG has a chance to get close to K Malone. This is the NBAs 2nd alltime leading scorer, 2 time MVP and an innovator. He fundementaly changed the way the PF is played.

KG has 20k pts and 10k rebs hes in a group of about 20 players (Duncan is about 40rebs away) Of those players how many of them are better than KG?
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
DrJ
Baylor
Duncan
Moses
Ewing
DRob
Hakeem
Gilmore
Bellamy
Hayes
Parish
Pettit
K Malone
Barkley

10 of them IMHO are far superior.

Parish, Bells, Hayes, Ewing, Gilmore, Charles and Pettit.

Where does KG fall in that group? I believe hes in the top half. Is Charles?

Warspite wrote: An honest question for you:

If the Rockets had won a title with Charles would you honestly think hes a better player than you think now?

Better player? No. But he'd be ranked higher. All-time rankings aren't just about who the better player is (though that factors in), it's about accomplishments. And if KG wins the title this year, that's a big feather in his cap, especially considering how he changed the entire culture of that team defensively.

Barkley is 9th all-time in efficiency

Malone is 14th all-time.


Right now KG is 12th all-time.


So he certainly is in the conversation with those two guys.

You gotta take him over Malone if he finishes with a ring and as more efficient player.

But Barkley? I dont know. Barkley could certainly get a ring outside the Jordan era on this Celtics team.

So Barkley is a little ahead in efficiency, but they aren't close defensively, at all.

Jordan23Forever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Better player? No. But he'd be ranked higher. All-time rankings aren't just about who the better player is (though that factors in), it's about accomplishments. And if KG wins the title this year, that's a big feather in his cap, especially considering how he changed the entire culture of that team defensively.

Charles was at best the 3rd option on a team with Hakeem and Pippen and he was only good fro about 15 mins. His impact on that team was on par or below Horrys. I understand being the best or 2nd best player on Championship team as opposed to a great player on a bad team that amasses stats. What if Charles had been traded to the Bulls but was hurt and never played in the playoffs?? Does his ring still get him over the hump even though he never played.

Is Jeremey Shockey now closer to the NFL HoF because he has a ring?? Is he now better than Tony Gonzalez or K Winslow? Im just not so sure that players that played in the 60s, 80s and 90s were lesser players because they didnt play for the Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Pistons, 76ers and Spurs.

Jordan23Forever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Better player? No. But he'd be ranked higher. All-time rankings aren't just about who the better player is (though that factors in), it's about accomplishments. And if KG wins the title this year, that's a big feather in his cap, especially considering how he changed the entire culture of that team defensively.

Good point. Look, Russell and Jordan are among the GOAT candidates only partially because of their spectacular Rebounding and Scoring respectively. If they had come close but never won championships, as good as they were, they would be in the Karl Malone category all time, not up there with Wilt. And they got a lot of breaks, Jordan hit game winners but so did Steve Kerr; Russell made key defensive stops but so did Havlicek . . . they were players on teams of destiny and that counts! So, even though Wilt is clearly the most dominant individual player of all time, he ranks behind Russell and Jordan in my personal GOAT list because those two players were winners . . . skill/luck/destiny/God liked them better, it doesn't matter so much the reason, they won bigger than anyone else, ever so the GOAT list for me is (1) Russell (2) Jordan (3) Wilt where without the championships it would be the other way around.

Barkley is definitely the worst defender of the bunch. However, he seemed to have a greater ability to impose his will than the others. Just my (very) subjective view.