RealGM

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:52 pm**

Me and my friend were having this argument, who do you think has a better chance of making the basketball Hall of Fame; Ginobili (the euro dreamboat superstar) or Pierce (the gritty allstar)

VOTE!

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:53 pm**

Gino. His international accomplishments are historic.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:12 pm**

Pierce is already a lock.

Manu isn't and may at this point in his career be a long shot.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:23 pm**

KyleCleric wrote:Pierce is already a lock.

Manu isn't and may at this point in his career be a long shot.

I think it's the other way around. Manu is definitely in, and as for Pierce....well we'll see in the next few years what happens

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:35 pm**

Cevap wrote:
KyleCleric wrote:Pierce is already a lock.

Manu isn't and may at this point in his career be a long shot.

I think it's the other way around. Manu is definitely in, and as for Pierce....well we'll see in the next few years what happens

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:38 pm**

Moved to appropriate forum.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:45 pm**

Paul Pierce has a Finals MVP and will most likely go down as the career leader in points for the greatest franchise in the NBA. He will be a lock.

Manu Ginobili is one of the most decorated international players in the world. He will be a lock.

I think people overexaggerate how hard it is to get into the HOF. They might not make it there first year of eligibility, but they will eventually make it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:19 pm**

KyleCleric wrote:Pierce is already a lock.

Manu isn't and may at this point in his career be a long shot.

It's the Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. As others have said, his international accomplishments will get him in.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:38 pm**

Manu quite easily could be in the GOAT HoF discussion. His Int accomplishments dwarf anything anyone has done in the NBA (in the minds of the commitee) since maybe Russell or Wilt.

Pierces performance in FIBA is not only horrible but hes considered the biggest reason for his teams failure in the World Championships. That performance might cancel out his NBA Finals MVP.

In the eyes of the voters FIBA>>NBA so your NBA career doesnt hold the same weight as INT performance.

Thats why the NCAA has created there own basketball HoF and why the NBA should do as well.

Posted: **Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:44 pm**

Warspite wrote:Manu quite easily could be in the GOAT HoF discussion. His Int accomplishments dwarf anything anyone has done in the NBA (in the minds of the commitee) since maybe Russell or Wilt.

Pierces performance in FIBA is not only horrible but hes considered the biggest reason for his teams failure in the World Championships. That performance might cancel out his NBA Finals MVP.

In the eyes of the voters FIBA>>NBA so your NBA career doesnt hold the same weight as INT performance.

Thats why the NCAA has created there own basketball HoF and why the NBA should do as well.

Are you serious? Seriously, I don't know maybe you're right, but how in the hell is FIBA>NBA to the HOF? Basketball was created in the USA, the NBA is the most recognized and popular basketball league in the world, and it was only about 10 years ago when the international players were clearly inferior to NBA players by a wide margin.

Posted: **Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:04 pm**

Warspite wrote:Manu quite easily could be in the GOAT HoF discussion. His Int accomplishments dwarf anything anyone has done in the NBA (in the minds of the commitee) since maybe Russell or Wilt.

Pierces performance in FIBA is not only horrible but hes considered the biggest reason for his teams failure in the World Championships. That performance might cancel out his NBA Finals MVP.

In the eyes of the voters FIBA>>NBA so your NBA career doesnt hold the same weight as INT performance.

Thats why the NCAA has created there own basketball HoF and why the NBA should do as well.

Well I think it's pretty clear that the "FIBA>>NBA" statement is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of players to get in, even in the past few years when presumably the FIBA was getting more weight, have been American players based on NBA performance.

However, Ginobili's international accomplishments are probably the difference between him and Pierce. imho, Ginobili's a mortal lock, Pierce is merely probable. Though it's important to keep in mind, I don't believe there's ever been a team that wins 3 titles that didn't get 3 guys in the Hall, and Ginobili is clearly one of the big 3 on the 00s Spurs.

Posted: **Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:38 am**

Doctor MJ wrote:
Warspite wrote:Manu quite easily could be in the GOAT HoF discussion. His Int accomplishments dwarf anything anyone has done in the NBA (in the minds of the commitee) since maybe Russell or Wilt.

Pierces performance in FIBA is not only horrible but hes considered the biggest reason for his teams failure in the World Championships. That performance might cancel out his NBA Finals MVP.

In the eyes of the voters FIBA>>NBA so your NBA career doesnt hold the same weight as INT performance.

Thats why the NCAA has created there own basketball HoF and why the NBA should do as well.

Well I think it's pretty clear that the "FIBA>>NBA" statement is a huge exaggeration. The vast majority of players to get in, even in the past few years when presumably the FIBA was getting more weight, have been American players based on NBA performance.

However, Ginobili's international accomplishments are probably the difference between him and Pierce. imho, Ginobili's a mortal lock, Pierce is merely probable. Though it's important to keep in mind, I don't believe there's ever been a team that wins 3 titles that didn't get 3 guys in the Hall, and Ginobili is clearly one of the big 3 on the 00s Spurs.

Did some research and according to the Hof website nominations fall into 4 commitees

1. North American Men
2. Women
3. Int players
4. Vets (over 35 yrs ago)

you need 5-7 votes in one of the last 3 categories and 7-9 votes for NA men.

According to there own rules Manu and Pierce dont compete against each other or against similar peers. Pierce will be competeing against American and Canadian players while Manu will be competeing against Int players. Its alot easier to beat out Barbossa, Nene, Okur and Peja than it is to beat out Duncan, Nash, Kobe, and Gilmore.

Of the nominated players in categories 1,2,4 there can only be 10 total nominated (ex WNBA GOAT candidate can bump a NBA HoF nominated player) Of the Int men a max of 2 can recieve HoF induction (I expect this rule to change over time). So for Manu not make the HoF there has to be 2 players/coaches with better careers than him for 35 yrs (assuming the rules are not altered) If the limit is rasied from 2 to 4 players like Scolla, Nene, Fernandez, both Gasols, AK47 and yes even Darko seem to be pretty close to locks for enshrinement. IMHO its pretty much a lock that the best Int player drafted every yr will make the HoF. I doubt very much there is 1 HoF American in every 2 or 3 draft classes on avg.

Posted: **Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:28 am**

Warspite wrote: Did some research and according to the Hof website nominations fall into 4 commitees

1. North American Men
2. Women
3. Int players
4. Vets (over 35 yrs ago)

you need 5-7 votes in one of the last 3 categories and 7-9 votes for NA men.

According to there own rules Manu and Pierce dont compete against each other or against similar peers. Pierce will be competeing against American and Canadian players while Manu will be competeing against Int players. Its alot easier to beat out Barbossa, Nene, Okur and Peja than it is to beat out Duncan, Nash, Kobe, and Gilmore.

Of the nominated players in categories 1,2,4 there can only be 10 total nominated (ex WNBA GOAT candidate can bump a NBA HoF nominated player) Of the Int men a max of 2 can recieve HoF induction (I expect this rule to change over time). So for Manu not make the HoF there has to be 2 players/coaches with better careers than him for 35 yrs (assuming the rules are not altered) If the limit is rasied from 2 to 4 players like Scolla, Nene, Fernandez, both Gasols, AK47 and yes even Darko seem to be pretty close to locks for enshrinement. IMHO its pretty much a lock that the best Int player drafted every yr will make the HoF. I doubt very much there is 1 HoF American in every 2 or 3 draft classes on avg.

Well first off, there's a big difference between putting guys in different zones of competition and saying "FIBA > NBA".

Beyond that we'll just see what happens. Right now, the vast majority of HOF male players are Americans, so claims that there are going to be more international players in the Hall than American guys don't seem to have any merit.

As far as doubting that there's 1 American HOF per every 2/3 draft classes, well there are certainly a hell of a lot more NBAers making it than that from drafts in the 80s. Off the top of my head there's Isiah, Nique, Worthy, Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Malone, Robinson and Pippen. That's more than 3 times the amount the amount you're think is likely. So again, if the future resembles what you speak of, it won't be based off of any precedent we've been seeing over recent years.

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