LeBron/Kobe or Magic/Dr.J?

[Malinhion]

Which of these pairings would be a more lethal combination to build a team around?

[Baller 24]

I think I'd go with Magic and Dr J. Magic is a mismatch for nearly any PG to defend, and if he was paired up with the Doc, then it'd be really interesting to watch. I think both of their numbers would go up in terms of scoring, passing, rebounding, just because of how efficient of a scorer Dr. J was, and how efficient of a passer Magic was, especially when running the fast break.

[semi-sentient]

The team that does not include Kobe is obviously the right choice.

[The Main Event]

Im gonna go with Kobe/Lebron on this one. The same way that Magic can be said to be a mismatch for other PG's, Lebron can be considered a mismatch for SF's.
However; it's undeniable that Magic's playmaking abilities could be considered invaluable whereas the ability to score is secondary in importance.

[Baller 24]

Im gonna go with Kobe/Lebron on this one. The same way that Magic can be said to be a mismatch for other PG's, Lebron can be considered a mismatch for SF's.
However; it's undeniable that Magic's playmaking abilities could be considered invaluable whereas the ability to score is secondary in importance.

Magic Johnson is a 6'9 PG, how is LBJ just as good a mismatch?

Not to mention Magic's passing skills outweigh both Kobe and LBJ combined. The guy is known to be what is a top 5, 6 at the least player of all time. Not to mention Dr. J is a more efficient scorer then both. Magic also has topped over 18+, 20+ many times in his career, but his main game is playmaking and that is what kills everyone.

[TMACFORMVP]

I can't find a reason why you wouldn't take Magic and Doctor J.

The Doctor for a player of his caliber was terrific off the ball, and pair that with Magic who was the maestro of fast-break push it up basketball with Erving's finishing ability would be a match made in heaven, MUCH more-so than Kobe/Bron who both need the ball in their hands to be effective. I'm not much a fan of Usg%, but it's pretty telling in this case:

Erving--career 27.2% with a high of 30.3
Magic--career 22.3% with a high of 24.8
Kobe--career 31.1% with a high of 38.7
LeBron--career 31.2% with a high of 33.5

Obviously it's a flawed stat considering all four are great players and would make it work, but just due to the fact that Magic and Erving would more likely fit better because of how much less they needed the ball and frankly, they were better players than their counterparts. Magic being the best player of them all should be the deciding factor anyway, the mis-matches he'd create with his size and ability and then a player and finisher of Erving's caliber would be just too much to handle.

Magic/Dr. J imo.

[TheOUTLAW]

Im gonna go with Kobe/Lebron on this one. The same way that Magic can be said to be a mismatch for other PG's, Lebron can be considered a mismatch for SF's.
However; it's undeniable that Magic's playmaking abilities could be considered invaluable whereas the ability to score is secondary in importance.

Magic Johnson is a 6'9 PG, how is LBJ just as good a mismatch?

Not to mention Magic's passing skills outweigh both Kobe and LBJ combined. The guy is known to be what is a top 5, 6 at the least player of all time. Not to mention Dr. J is a more efficient scorer then both. Magic also has topped over 18+, 20+ many times in his career, but his main game is playmaking and that is what kills everyone.

It's not as though Magic was being guarded by PG or was guarding point guards. What this really would make interesting is on defense. I think that Kobe and LeBron are just better defensive players than Magic and Dr. J. But, with Dr. J as the other player Magic would have to guard the teams 2 guard or the Point. I really think this would be a tough matchup for him.

[The Main Event]

Im gonna go with Kobe/Lebron on this one. The same way that Magic can be said to be a mismatch for other PG's, Lebron can be considered a mismatch for SF's.
However; it's undeniable that Magic's playmaking abilities could be considered invaluable whereas the ability to score is secondary in importance.

Magic Johnson is a 6'9 PG, how is LBJ just as good a mismatch?

Not to mention Magic's passing skills outweigh both Kobe and LBJ combined. The guy is known to be what is a top 5, 6 at the least player of all time. Not to mention Dr. J is a more efficient scorer then both. Magic also has topped over 18+, 20+ many times in his career, but his main game is playmaking and that is what kills everyone.

First of all we don't know what context this would be under. Secondly, you can't honestly tell me that you think that pound for pound, Dr. J and Magic would be better than Kobe and Lebron.

Lebron is by far the superior athlete between the 4 and Kobe is a close 2nd. LBJ and Kobe are no slouches when it comes to creating their own shots so a Rajon Rondo type pg would suit them fine. Once again, we don't know the context that this would be under. If Dr. J is the primary scorer on this hypothetical team, then i would without a doubt favor LBJ and Kobe to make for a better duo then Magic and Dr. J.

If Lebron were to play on the Showtime Lakers, he too could have been put at the PG position and been a mismatch for every PG in the league. He is already a mismatch for most SF's in todays game and could probably play the 4 spot for short stints if it came down to it. I'd love to see Magic try to play all 5 positions in today's game.

[The Main Event]

I can't find a reason why you wouldn't take Magic and Doctor J.

The Doctor for a player of his caliber was terrific off the ball, and pair that with Magic who was the maestro of fast-break push it up basketball with Erving's finishing ability would be a match made in heaven, MUCH more-so than Kobe/Bron who both need the ball in their hands to be effective. I'm not much a fan of Usg%, but it's pretty telling in this case:

Erving--career 27.2% with a high of 30.3
Magic--career 22.3% with a high of 24.8
Kobe--career 31.1% with a high of 38.7
LeBron--career 31.2% with a high of 33.5

Obviously it's a flawed stat considering all four are great players and would make it work, but just due to the fact that Magic and Erving would more likely fit better because of how much less they needed the ball and frankly, they were better players than their counterparts. Magic being the best player of them all should be the deciding factor anyway, the mis-matches he'd create with his size and ability and then a player and finisher of Erving's caliber would be just too much to handle.

Magic/Dr. J imo.

So please exaplin to me how Magic needed the ball much less than the other players to be effective. Last i checked the PG needs the ball moreso than any other position to be effective.

[TMACFORMVP]

Magic would need the ball, not denying that, and moreso than any other, but the fact that Erving needs the ball the least of all four, would make for a more efficient offense and a better fit with Magic's play-making and Erving's finishing/rebounding ability. I just think both of them would fit better than LeBron/Kobe.

[Baller 24]

First of all we don't know what context this would be under. Secondly, you can't honestly tell me that you think that pound for pound, Dr. J and Magic would be better than Kobe and Lebron.

Both were more efficient, Kobe is a great defender, don't get me wrong, but Dr. J did lead the league in defensive win shares numerous times. Not to mention he was both an effiecent defender, and scorer in his ABA/ Early NBA days.

Lebron is by far the superior athlete between the 4 and Kobe is a close 2nd. LBJ and Kobe are no slouches when it comes to creating their own shots so a Rajon Rondo type pg would suit them fine. Once again, we don't know the context that this would be under. If Dr. J is the primary scorer on this hypothetical team, then i would without a doubt favor LBJ and Kobe to make for a better duo then Magic and Dr. J.

Yes LBJ is a beast, I'm one of the biggest LBJ fans I really like his style of play. I mean he is 260LBS 6'8 and for his size, I woudln't be surprised if is the strongest player in the league. That means hes Dwight's weight, but SHORTER, and MUCH FASTER, he is quite a specimen, and one of the only that I think has potential to be a top 10 all time, and IMO he will be higher then Kobe.

Anyways, Magic wasn't a liability on offense, he shot in between 47-53% throughout his career, while taking only 12-14 shot attempts. While also averaging in between 10-13 assist. Not to mention he did this ALL while he usage percentage was no where near the top of the league, stayed only around 20%. Dr. J is the most efficient scorer out of both Kobe and LBJ, there is no arguing that, he was also the better rebounder. The only thing they would need is a decent big man maybe someone like Lambier, and at SG they can practically stick anyone, as Dr. J had no problem with his mid range game, and this was when the NBA 3pt line started, but most players weren't using it.

If Lebron were to play on the Showtime Lakers, he too could have been put at the PG position and been a mismatch for every PG in the league. He is already a mismatch for most SF's in todays game and could probably play the 4 spot for short stints if it came down to it. I'd love to see Magic try to play all 5 positions in today's game.

He probabley could have, but not as effective and efficient as Magic, his passing skills would not be nearly the same. And what are you talking about? Magic probably still could play all 5 positions, he played against guys like Daryl Dawkins, Kevin McHale, and even Robert Parish, and those guys are known to be some VERY tough centers/forwards. I wouldn't love to see Magic try, I'd loved to watch prime Magic today be a top 3 candidate MVP player, while playing all 5 positions, and being effective. Magic also led a team without Kareem, a broken down Worthy, and no Pat Riley to the finals while winning the MVP.

[RoyceDa59]

Kobe and LeBron would be better defensively but Magic and Erving would have better chemistry. I'd go with the Magic Doctor.

[Jordan23Forever]

Lebron is by far the superior athlete between the 4 and Kobe is a close 2nd.

Kobe is not as good an athlete as Dr. J. Even LBJ > Dr. J is arguable, and even if LBJ > Dr. J, it isn't "by far." You're talking about a top 10 athlete in the history of the league for ALL positions when you're talking about Dr. J. There is no player who is "by far" more athletic than Dr. J.

[Baller 24]

Lebron is by far the superior athlete between the 4 and Kobe is a close 2nd.

Kobe is not as good an athlete as Dr. J. Even LBJ > Dr. J is arguable, and even if LBJ > Dr. J, it isn't "by far." You're talking about a top 10 athlete in the history of the league for ALL positions when you're talking about Dr. J. There is no player who is "by far" more athletic than Dr. J.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ni6qGyIRMa8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KCPEGeBihRw&feature=related

Only players that are on his level in terms of athleticism are Jordan, Carter, and Nique. LBJ may be considerably and could be on the same level, but Kobe is no way near the Doctor.

[ronnymac2]

Magic, Kobe, Erving, Lebron....all on one team....That team could put kwame at center and annhilate a great team....The showtime lakers would look slow against them.....but to the comparison....

I don't why, but I'm having a hard time comparing them because of the different positions. You have 2 pure small fowards in erving and james, then a pg in magic and pure sg in kobe. Usually, comparing different combos with different positions isn't hard, but these players are unique.

Magic isn't your typical pg. He and lebron are similar. As are erving and Bryant. Magic and lebron are the mismatches, the physical beasts, the versatile guys, the underrated defenders. Kobe and erving are the explosive scorers, the guys known for being great on defense, the all around wingmen, and great facilitators. Really, who would guard who on these teams? Who COULD guard who? Nobody, not even Lebron, could guard magic in the post. His post moves were too good. Erving is too explosive and athletic for bryant or james. Then, erving isn't big and strong enough to contain james, and magic isn't fast enough. And Bryant is just too great an overall offensive threat to be stopped by erving and magic.

Magic to erving on alleyoops would be all day. Bryant and James would be a terrifying offensive duo- you can't key in on either of them like you can on their current respective teams...no offense to gibson, gasol, odom, and big z.

All of these guys have carried their respective ball clubs and been pretty successful at it. They are all around great players, 2-way-players (imo), have a big effect on the game, and are pretty clutch.

Maybe I'll be able to answer this when Lebron James reaches his absolute prime...until then, I don't think I can decide. I want to give a very slight edge to Bryant and James, but I dunno.

[tsherkin]

How are we comparing these guys?

In two-on-two or in a 5-on-5 game with 3 replacement players filling out the other three spots?

It's actually a tough call in either; Magic is the best post player of the group (shortly followed by Kobe, who's the best post-up guard since Jordan, no question, no contest... though not as good as was MJ). Kobe's also the best isolation scorer, though Lebron is a close second for sheer "you can't physically stop me" power.

Kobe/Lebron sidescreen with Lebron rolling? Stop that, I dare you. Lebron could score 30+ ppg every season just on the strength of the pick-and-roll if the Cavs would just see it... I hate Mike Brown sometimes. Often. Almost always...

But I mean Erving was nasty himself, he was well-rounded and Magic's the best passer in NBA history.

5-on-5, I go Erving/Magic. Kobe and Lebron are both dominant on-ball guys and again, Magic's the best distributor in NBA history. A nasty offensive weapon, too, I mean 20 ppg on 13 shots per game? That's roughly his career average and it's almost unfairly efficient. Particularly later career Magic, you really didn't want to see him on the court because he was just that good, whether he was passing, shooting, driving or posting (and SKYHOOKING).

I would obviously say it's a near thing, though, because I can see Kobe being the primary ball-handler and Lebron turning into the Mailman... getting plenty of touches and scoring opportunities but not being the dominant on-ball guy. Secondary ball-handler, primary when Kobe's off the floor... they'd never lack for takeover offense and Kobe's the best defender of the bunch (followed by Erving, of course).

Kobe is not as good an athlete as Dr. J.

True, but he's better than Magic (though Magic, who played most of his career around Lebron's rookie weight of 240 and was very strong).

Even LBJ > Dr. J is arguable, and even if LBJ > Dr. J, it isn't "by far." You're talking about a top 10 athlete in the history of the league for ALL positions when you're talking about Dr. J. There is no player who is "by far" more athletic than Dr. J.

Nnnh... I'm inclined to say Lebron, by far. Comparable in leaping, give or take a few inches, but athleticism isn't just speed and leaping. Lebron's array of physical talents extends to the "I'm going to pound you flat with raw mass and power" that only Magic even approaches in that group. He's the size of Karl Malone, remember; Lebron's 6'9 and 260 pounds. He's built like a power forward but is on-par with any athlete in NBA history in terms of his other physical traits. That makes him, by far, the best athlete in this little grouping strictly on the basis of physical traits.

[shawngoat23]

Magic and Dr. J are both better players than LeBron and Kobe, so the choice is quite easy to me.

[tmac4real]

what in gods name would compell anyone to pick kobe and lebron on this one? dat shiat ain't fly son

[Malinhion]

Hold up. Couple things I wanna clarify.

Magic's defense was average at best. It's really the only thing keeping him below MJ in the GOAT discussion, considering his astronomical offensive efficiency and his mound of accolades in a career cut short. LeBron's defense has already stepped up and he will obviously be a better defender than Magic ever was in his playing career. Dr. J was one of the league's best defenders. And while Kobe's defense in general is overrated, he is still the premier perimeter defender in the NBA (perhaps behind Artest).

LeBron is easily the best athlete of anyone in this discussion. The NBA has never seen a player like LeBron.

A few posters mentioned Kobe dominating the ball and LeBron working off of it. I actually think it would be better in the reverse. LeBron is better running the break, has superior courtvision (though probably inferior offensive aptitude in general), and better passing. I think the Usage Rates can be deceptive, because none of these guys ever played on the same team, and they were definitely expected to be the man. Their stylistic differences produces different Usages, but let's look at the assisted rates. Kobe is better creating his shot without the ball, since he has played all those years in the triangle.

Kobe Assisted FG%
2008: 40%
2007: 40%
2006: 44%
2005: 34%
2004: 47%
2003: 40%

LeBron Assisted FG%
2008: 34%
2007: 34%
2006: 32%
2005: 45%
2004: 47%

[The Main Event]

what in gods name would compell anyone to pick kobe and lebron on this one? dat shiat ain't fly son

So then back up your points with stats. As i see it, pound for pound Lebron is better than Dr. J.
Dr. J's accumulative stats are as follows ;

FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
.507 6.7 3.9 1.8 1.5 22.0

Here are Lebrons;

FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
.467 6.9 6.6 1.8 0.8 27.3

I don't see how its so inconceivable that Lebron was as good if not better than Dr. J respectively.
I realize that Dr. J was in the league alot longer than LBJ, which could dilute his stats, so for interests sake look at their best individual seasons. Dr. J was putting up 27 points, 7 rebounds and 5 assists in the 79-80 season.
In Lebron's best season (05-06) he was putting up 31 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists.
I know i sound like an ignorant new schooler when i say it but the overall level of athleticism in the NBA back when Dr.J was playing was alot lower than it is today. Lebron would potentially have put up even better numbers than the Dr. Obviously the physicality of the game was much more intense; however, i don't see Lebron being a guy who wouldn't have been able to hold his own.