Better scorer Kobe Bryant or Adrian Dantley

AIRTIGHT · Post #1 » by **AIRTIGHT** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:19 am

Who was the better scorer?

Post #2 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:51 pm

Neat comparison, but definitely Kobe. He can score from more places, he can score more quickly, he draws fouls at a comparable rate and he's shown the ability to exceed Dantley's 4-year peak scoring averages... and do so on outstanding teams.

This really isn't all that close, as good as was Dantley.

canefandynasty · Post #3 » by **canefandynasty** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:01 pm

Blackfyre · Post #4 » by **Blackfyre** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:32 pm

Dantley is very underrated sometimes. Very good scoring hand but this isn't really that close..Kobe here.

AIRTIGHT · Post #5 » by **AIRTIGHT** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:00 am

So no regard for effectiveness or efficiency here?

AIRTIGHT · Post #6 » by **AIRTIGHT** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:15 am

Dantley could score 30pts on 18.2 fga TS=65.2%
The first time Kobe averaged 30 he need 23.5 fga/gm TS=55.0% The latest time Kobe scored 31.7 on 22.8fga TS=58.0%

Surely Kobe has shown more variety in his scoring abilities, more dynamic potential for scoring-- but obviously that comes at a cost of a much lower efficiency and consistency. Liken this to a pick-up league; it's great to have a player who is able to score in a myriad of different varieties and ways, but eventually efficiency and efficacy overcompensates for variety. Shaq vs Kobe *scoring on the same team*- ring a bell?

So when you guys are talking about 'Kobe has shown he can exceed Dantley's career highs', make sure you account for efficiencies. In fact, if you do the math (and gauge the scoring totals to a 50% scale), Kobe scored 31.7pts x .580% which is a scoring efficiency of 36.72pts if he shot only .50 TS%. Dantley at 30.6 x .652% is a scoring efficiency of 39.9 if you gauge his scoring to a 50% scale (and obviously Kobe took more shots and was afforded more shots by his team, so if given the same usuage you would assume Dantley's superority to be even more pronounced). So if anything, Kobe has not shot that he can match Dantley's scoring highs.

iamworthy · Post #7 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:47 am

Kobe, and its not even close.

dalekjazz · Post #8 » by **dalekjazz** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:47 am

AD, no question about it.

TAI8 · Post #9 » by **TAI8** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:55 am

Come on this is Kobe.

peterhaas · Post #10 » by **peterhaas** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:03 am

AIRTIGHT,

in that case, Dantley is on Jordan's level or above during all the years MJ averaged 30ppg because Dantley did so at a TS% of 65% compared to MJ who was at 62% for his peak.

MAn, these haters are RIDICULOUS. Anything. Any stat. Any metric. Any quantitative measure to somehow discredit Kobe. It's amazing you guys aren't paid for the work you guys put in.

Where does the good LORD find these people.

AIRTIGHT · Post #11 » by **AIRTIGHT** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:39 am

^ It's possible he was on Jordan's level-- it's simple mathematic logic, I didn't base it in any way to favor my own argument or biases. However Jordan averaged more ppg than. .. Kobe ON TOP OF higher efficiencies for those points, so I would argue that Dantley was still slightly under Jordan in scoring effectiveness.

Look at the three career highs of each player in True Scoring PPG (PPG gauged to 50% TS)
Kobe
06'= 39.57
07'= 36.65
03'= 33.00
Dantley
83'= 40.58
84'= 39.90
81'= 38.19

How am I a hater? Why can't Dantley be a better scorer than Kobe Bryant? Why isn't that possible?- because Jack Haley and Mark Jackson say so? Logic and reality are a hazardous combination around die-hard Kobe fans.
(also note the rule change in todays league which affords perimeter players the opporunity to get many more fta/g with less driving to the basket. - does anyone really think Kobe should garner 10 ft/g 3 years in a row, 9 this year?? The guy fades away on ever shot, how often does he drive to the basket?)

Jordan23Forever · Post #12 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:56 am

LOL @ peterhaas bringing Jordan up yet again when the question is about Kobe. :lol:

Sad.

Baller 24 · Post #13 » by **Baller 24** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:06 am

peterhaas wrote:AIRTIGHT,

in that case, Dantley is on Jordan's level or above during all the years MJ averaged 30ppg because Dantley did so at a TS% of 65% compared to MJ who was at 62% for his peak.

MAn, these haters are RIDICULOUS. Anything. Any stat. Any metric. Any quantitative measure to somehow discredit Kobe. It's amazing you guys aren't paid for the work you guys put in.

Where does the good LORD find these people.

Haha, dude you might want to take a vacation from this forum; because from what I've seen you've really disliked a lot of the Kobe related threads. Its not that a lot of people hate him (hes got a lot of lovers and haters), but every time I've seen you defend him you like to bring up how the Lakers sucked; not true at all and stats don't support your favor.

Anyways, I'm not saying he was a better scorer, IMO Kobe was better, could score from more a lot more angles. You rationalize the fact that Kobe takes more shots from different positions, ranges, and with angles it clearly is in Kobe's favor. I think a more realistically close comparison would be peak (2003) T-Mac; someone like Dantley doesn't favor himself against Kobe even though he shot at an excellent percentage.

WesWesley · Post #14 » by **WesWesley** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:16 am

Kobe loves his haters. Their his biggest fans.

This is Kobe anyways. Those stats AIRTIGHT brought up don't prove anything to me. They played in a different era, and those statics don't tell the whole story of scoring. It's a shame he made such a fancy looking post mean so little.

kooldude · Post #15 » by **kooldude** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:44 am

maybe I'm ignorant since I never saw Dantley played but looking at the raw numbers, it's definitely not Kobe easily at all. Dantley scored at high volumes with massive efficiency. His career TS% is 4th on the all-time list! Is Kobe even close to the top 50? Kobe never led the league in Offensive Win Shares or Offensive Rating; Dantley did multiple times, while with a less Usage Rate than Kobe. Kobe is more dangerous when hot and can shot from long distance but Dantley's volume efficiency is crazy. Again, I never said him play so maybe in his era, he was a horrible teammate/ball hog etc.

kooldude · Post #16 » by **kooldude** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:47 am

Wes_Wesley wrote:Kobe loves his haters. Their his biggest fans.

This is Kobe anyways. Those stats AIRTIGHT brought up don't prove anything to me. They played in a different era, and those statics don't tell the whole story of scoring. It's a shame he made such a fancy looking post mean so little.

That's true for alot of stats but TS% has remained relative the same from almost every era (every year even, with a few exceptions)

Jordan23Forever · Post #17 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:54 am

kooldude wrote:maybe I'm ignorant since I never saw Dantley played but looking at the raw numbers, it's definitely not Kobe easily at all. Dantley scored at high volumes with massive efficiency. His career TS% is 4th on the all-time list! Is Kobe even close to the top 50? Kobe never led the league in Offensive Win Shares or Offensive Rating; Dantley did multiple times, while with a less Usage Rate than Kobe. Kobe is more dangerous when hot and can shot from long distance but Dantley's volume efficiency is crazy. Again, I never said him play so maybe in his era, he was a horrible teammate/ball hog etc.

The biggest knock on Dantley is that he needed like 10 seconds to score the ball (usually in the post) and was a black hole on offense.

I definitely don't think that Dantley could have maintained those numbers in a variety of offensive systems and contexts, and while playing good enough team ball to have team success. To me, that's really the mark of a great scorer: can you do it in a variety of circumstances, with a variety of different teammates, against a variety of defenses geared to stop you, and while playing team ball and having team success?

There have been lots of guys throughout history and today who can score; fewer can do all of the above. I also don't think that Dantley ever saw the defensive attention that other dangerous scorers of his era (MJ, Nique) or today (Kobe, Lebron) saw and see. That said, anyone who acts like this question is a joke is actually showing themselves to be a joke.

kooldude · Post #18 » by **kooldude** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:59 am

^why didn't he get the defensive attention? He annually scored 10+ pts than his 2nd option.

Jordan23Forever · Post #19 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:29 am

All I can tell you from watching several of his games is that he didn't. I'm not sure why. Maybe despite his scoring ability teams didn't feel that he could beat you singlehandedly. Maybe they didn't feel that his team ever really threatened. Not sure really. All I can suggest is to watch the games and see. I've only seen an admittedly small sample of his games, however (like 5 or 6 outside the Pistons/Bulls games I have from when he was on Detroit).

Patterns · Post #20 » by **Patterns** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:29 am

One day when Kobe is destroying teams by the third quarter, outscoring them by himself, making records that no one else has touched, he might be the best offensive player of all time.

Now during the off season, he's compared to Dantley!?