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athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:01 pm
by jeahwe
My english isnt' good enough to write some decent introduction, but I'm curious how West's athecism look in comparison with MJ and LJ. Maybe somebody know West vertical or wingspan?
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:35 pm
by TrueLAfan
In terms of measurements…Jerry West’s sleeve length—they didn’t measure wingspan at the time—has been given as either 38” or 39”. That’s huge. (For a simple comparison, I’m 6’ 4.5” barefoot—and I have a 36” sleeve. And I’m not gator armed.) His wingspan works out to about 6’9” to 6’9.5”. He measured 6’2.5” barefoot/in socks, which would put him between 6’3.5” and 6’4” in shoes—in other words, he’d list at 6’4”. A few players recently that have similar sorts of measurements would be
Eric Gordon (6’2” in socks/6’3.25” in shoes/6’9” wingspan)
Jarrett Jack (6’2.5” in socks/6’3.5” in shoes/6’7.5” wingspan)
Ben Gordon (6’1” in socks/6’2.5” in shoes/6’8.5” wingspan)
Russell Westbrook (6’2.25” in socks/6’3.5” in shoes/6’7.75” wingspan)
West is bigger in measurement category than all of those players. Wade’s measurements are 6’3.75” in socks, 6’4.75” in shoes, 6’10.75” wingspan. West was a combo guard in his time—and, clearly, he’d be able to function as a combo guard today.
Quickness and speed are harder to determine. All we can say for sure is that Jerry West was a great athlete...people today that compare his quickness and speed to, say, Kobe Bryant (and saw both players) tend to put West ahead. Ernie Vandeweghe does. Rod Hundley does. Chick Hearn did. Elliot Kalb does. West had a great first step, good enough hops to get 16.5 rebounds a game as a college senior (and finish in the national top 10 in rebounding), and outstanding lateral quickness.
Compared to Jordan—Jordan is a larger player. Others might say West had more straight ahead speed…I’d tend to go with Jordan. MJ also had an advantage in body control and hops, although the difference in vertical is probably not too much and is disputable because of the style of play of the 1960s that discouraged playing above the rim. West had the advantage in quickness and hand speed and physical toughness; Jerry West is probably the toughest guard to ever play in the NBA (respectful nod to Iverson). He played in a much more physically abusive period and played completely without fear or regard for his physical well being. If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris. West, physically, is like a larger, longer Devin Harris. I think he's a little more ahtletic than Harris, though.
LeBron James is a fundamentally different type of player playing a different position—it would be better to compare LeBron’s athleticism with Elgin Baylor’s.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:26 pm
by Islander
TrueLAfan wrote: If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris. West, physically, is like a larger, longer Devin Harris. I think he's a little more ahtletic than Harris, though.
You've got to be kidding!
I remember you when you thought the Clippers should draft Loren Woods in the lottery. LOL.
Should start that Loren Woods vs. Brendan Haywood comparison again.
Let's just say your guy Woods would have been an EPIC FAILURE had the Clippers followed your advice and drafted him in the LOTTERY... while Haywood has been a serviceable NBA center when healthy: 10.7 ppg. 7.2 rpg. 1.7 bpg. 52.8% fg. 72.5% ft. in 2007-2008.
Back to the topic at hand...
Actually, Dwayne Wade is the best comparison to Jerry West in terms of size, length, athleticism and overall impact on a game as a shooting/combo guard who stands around 6'4" in shoes and dishes for assists like a point -- same as West.
I don't see how you can think Harris is the best comparison when Wade is clearly the best modern day comparison to West.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:44 pm
by tsherkin
West was indeed an aggressive dribble-penetrator who drew a lot of fouls, which is similar to Wade, but he was also a WAY better shooter than Wade has ever proven himself to be, even this year, and a more effective conventional passer. Wade's an excellent passer who does very well on the penetrate-and-pitch and on that midscreen play with Haslem, but he's not the same kind of intuitive playmaker that was West.
I don't think West was as athletic as Harris, but the video quality from his era and the stylistic differences do make it a little tough to tell. I can say that in '72, when he was still pretty athletic at the end of his career, and that was past 30 and with a series of injuries to his legs (among other things) behind him.
He was definitely an athletic guy.
Still, Islander raises the Wade comparison with merit and reason, there is much shared between West and Wade; more, perhaps, than with Devin Harris.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:17 pm
by shawngoat23
Islander wrote:TrueLAfan wrote: If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris. West, physically, is like a larger, longer Devin Harris. I think he's a little more ahtletic than Harris, though.
You've got to be kidding!
I remember you when you thought the Clippers should draft Loren Woods in the lottery. LOL.
Two posts in eight years, with the memory of an elephant? Impressive.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:47 pm
by TrueLAfan
TrueLAfan wrote:If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris.
Bolded that part for the people to make it clear. West's playing style isn't like Harris--the original post was talking about athleticism/size/length. Devin Harris is a good match physically and athletically--although, as I said, West is bigger.
Wade's style of play is comparable to West's in many ways--particularly the way they both go inside (too recklessly for their coaches form time to time). But tsherkin is right...West's range is so different from Wade's that it isn't a truly accurate comparison. The modern game is tailor made for Jerry West.
I'd be curious to see how Wade played when paired with a great player/scorer on the perimeter, like Elgin Baylor. From 1962 to 1969, Jerry West averaged 29 ppg...and led the team is shots per game
once. As great of a scorer as West was/is, he was more of a deferrer (at least until crunch time)...and that's not like Wade either.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:28 pm
by Islander
West's playing style isn't like Harris
With the sole exception of three-point shooting (which did not exist in West's day, but West would have excelled at it), the playing style of Wade is a closer match to West. West was also a tremendous defender and take a look at the 6'4" Wade's defensive stats this season: 2.2 spg. 1.5 bpg. Jerry West would have averaged similar defensive numbers had the stats been kept -- including the block shots.
as I said, West is bigger
Yes. West was bigger than Harris, which makes the 6'4" Wade with his freakish wingspan a closer match to the 6'4" West in athleticism, size and length.
In fact, Dwayne Wade is the best match the league has seen to Jerry West since the days of West himself.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:40 pm
by marshmallow
TrueLAfan wrote:[compared to Michael Jordan] West had the advantage in quickness and hand speed...
Is there publicly available video demonstrating Jerry West being quicker than Michael Jordan? Name a game where I can see this. It doesn't have to be youtube or anything like that, just a game that anyone can get. For reference, I've watched game 7 of the '69 Finals and a couple games from the '72 and '70 Finals. I don't think the West I saw was more athletic than Wizards Jordan. His jump shot is wet all day though.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:11 am
by TheOUTLAW
Islander wrote:West's playing style isn't like Harris
With the sole exception of three-point shooting (which did not exist in West's day, but West would have excelled at it), the playing style of Wade is a closer match to West. West was also a tremendous defender and take a look at the 6'4" Wade's defensive stats this season: 2.2 spg. 1.5 bpg. Jerry West would have averaged similar defensive numbers had the stats been kept -- including the block shots.
as I said, West is bigger
Yes. West was bigger than Harris, which makes the 6'4" Wade with his freakish wingspan a closer match to the 6'4" West in athleticism, size and length.
In fact, Dwayne Wade is the best match the league has seen to Jerry West since the days of West himself.
You have got to be the longest tenured ballboy every. That's just amazing. But I do remember seeing West play and he never really struck me as a particularly athletic player. it really could have been a style thing but I wouldn't have put him anywhere near these two in terms of athleticism.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:11 am
by Patterns
Jerry West is not in Jordan and Lebron's class as an athlete.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:55 pm
by Dr Aki
shawngoat23 wrote:Islander wrote:TrueLAfan wrote: If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris. West, physically, is like a larger, longer Devin Harris. I think he's a little more ahtletic than Harris, though.
You've got to be kidding!
I remember you when you thought the Clippers should draft Loren Woods in the lottery. LOL.
Two posts in eight years, with the memory of an elephant? Impressive.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:18 am
by ronnymac2
TrueLAfan wrote:TrueLAfan wrote:If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris.
Bolded that part for the people to make it clear. West's playing style isn't like Harris--the original post was talking about athleticism/size/length. Devin Harris is a good match physically and athletically--although, as I said, West is bigger.
Wade's style of play is comparable to West's in many ways--particularly the way they both go inside (too recklessly for their coaches form time to time). But tsherkin is right...West's range is so different from Wade's that it isn't a truly accurate comparison. The modern game is tailor made for Jerry West.
I'd be curious to see how Wade played when paired with a great player/scorer on the perimeter, like Elgin Baylor. From 1962 to 1969, Jerry West averaged 29 ppg...and led the team is shots per game
once. As great of a scorer as West was/is, he was more of a deferrer (at least until crunch time)...and that's not like Wade either.
TLAF, I need help finding out more information about a certain player for the all-time league, and you seem to know a lot about him. Can I message you somehow?
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:20 am
by Nicky Nix Nook
Islander wrote:TrueLAfan wrote: If I were to choose a player that is the most like Jerry West now from a physical size and athleticism standpoint—in a slightly smaller package—I’d probably choose Devin Harris. West, physically, is like a larger, longer Devin Harris. I think he's a little more ahtletic than Harris, though.
You've got to be kidding!
I remember you when you thought the Clippers should draft Loren Woods in the lottery. LOL.
Should start that Loren Woods vs. Brendan Haywood comparison again.
Let's just say your guy Woods would have been an EPIC FAILURE had the Clippers followed your advice and drafted him in the LOTTERY... while Haywood has been a serviceable NBA center when healthy: 10.7 ppg. 7.2 rpg. 1.7 bpg. 52.8% fg. 72.5% ft. in 2007-2008.
Back to the topic at hand...
Actually, Dwayne Wade is the best comparison to Jerry West in terms of size, length, athleticism and overall impact on a game as a shooting/combo guard who stands around 6'4" in shoes and dishes for assists like a point -- same as West.
I don't see how you can think Harris is the best comparison when Wade is clearly the best modern day comparison to West.
Honestly. This is FREAKING amazing to me.
(on the topic of longest tenured ballboy)
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:48 pm
by Devilzsidewalk
its your guys' fault for not comparing West to Wade like you should have from the beginning.
You woke a sleeping giant.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:15 pm
by ronnymac2
To TLA... It seems I'm not able to send PM's. lol Should I just say the name here?
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:56 pm
by TrueLAfan
Sending my e-mail in a PM--just ask there. If that doesn't work...blurt it out here.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:09 am
by ronnymac2
Okay, coool. Thanks. I just sent the e-mail.
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:10 am
by shawngoat23
Hey, TrueLA, can I get some help too?
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:02 pm
by TrueLAfan
Whenever people want to ask my advice, I'm willing to give it. Whether it's worth anything or not...
Anyway, I went back and found an thread from a few months ago that was about how Jerry West and Oscar Robertson would perform today, and a lot of it dealt with the athleticism questions that started the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=849859&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Re: athletic comparison - Jerry West, Michael Jordan and LeBron
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:07 pm
by shawngoat23
TrueLAfan wrote:Whenever people want to ask my advice, I'm willing to give it. Whether it's worth anything or not...
Can you PM me your email, or should I blurt out my thoughts?
