Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast"..

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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#61 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:28 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:Some of that is because Pau went from being the first option on his team to the second or third on the Lakers while Mo has gone from being the second option to being the second option with slightly better looks.


Well no kidding. That's kind of the point. Pau is benefiting from not having to be THE man, which is why his efficiency has sky-rocketed. Mo is still the second option and is doing about the same as he was prior to LeBron, which is to say that he's been a pretty damn good player.

What it boils down to is that the Lakers have more talent than the Cavs do on offense. They have the best (or most well-rounded) offensive player in the league, followed by a couple of very efficient big men and role players that play well off of those guys, not to mention a great system that everyone knows.

The Cavs, however, have more talent in terms of defense. They have players that are simply mentally tougher and have bought in Mike Brown's system. The Lakers might have some of that same athleticism and youth, but they do not have the mentality (outside of 2 or 3 guys) to be that good defensively.

So, the real question is, what do you value more? If it's offense then you want Kobe's cast. If it's defense, then it's LeBron's. Now this is a bit tricky because the Lakers are a better defensive team with Bynum when he is actually committed to defense. We saw that the first month of the season when the Lakers dominated on that end like nobodies business (or maybe it was fools gold -- I have no idea). If we are talking about that Lakers team, then clearly there is a significant talent gap. But, we haven't seen that team in quite some time so we'll just go with the current supporting casts which does not include a defensive-minded Andrew Bynum.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#62 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:30 pm

CHIMOCHI wrote:LOL i thought they hated stats


Who the hell is "they"? Are you sure you don't want to generalize just a little bit more since you don't have anything else to offer?
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#63 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:33 pm

Defensively, the numbers may show that the Cavs are better(due to a certain external factor), but I'd still take our cast over theirs. I mean, Gasol, Odom and Ariza vs Big Z, Big Ben and Palovic? I'd take our length over theirs.

The bottom line is that Gasol is just so much better than anything the Cavs have. Before yesterday's game, he was actually ahead of Kobe in EFF. I mean, if we're going to start handing out MVPs to a guy who is 6 EFF points(quite possibly the largest between two MVP candidates ever) inferior to another guy, then the award is truly meaningless.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#64 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:55 pm

Lakers05 wrote:Defensively, the numbers may show that the Cavs are better(due to a certain external factor), but I'd still take our cast over theirs. I mean, Gasol, Odom and Ariza vs Big Z, Big Ben and Palovic? I'd take our length over theirs.


What external factor, and why limit it to Gasol, Odom, and Ariza? What about our PG defense, which is surely among the worst in the league? How about pretty much no defense whatsoever off the bench? It's pointless to have all that size if guys can not commit to playing defense night-in and night-out, and I don't buy this mess that we're "coasting" either.

Lakers05 wrote:The bottom line is that Gasol is just so much better than anything the Cavs have. Before yesterday's game, he was actually ahead of Kobe in EFF. I mean, if we're going to start handing out MVPs to a guy who is 6 EFF points(quite possibly the largest between two MVP candidates ever) inferior to another guy, then the award is truly meaningless.


Now you're just trolling.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#65 » by Dat Pass » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:04 pm

And I find it pretty amusing he left off Varejao... Who is putting up very similar numbers to Odom. Hes not as good as Odom, but he comes close to making up for it with his hustle.. And actually staying focused thru the course of an entire game, something Odom has never been able to do.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#66 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:11 pm

semi-sentient wrote:
Lakers05 wrote:Defensively, the numbers may show that the Cavs are better(due to a certain external factor), but I'd still take our cast over theirs. I mean, Gasol, Odom and Ariza vs Big Z, Big Ben and Palovic? I'd take our length over theirs.


What external factor, and why limit it to Gasol, Odom, and Ariza? What about our PG defense, which is surely among the worst in the league? How about pretty much no defense whatsoever off the bench? It's pointless to have all that size if guys can not commit to playing defense night-in and night-out, and I don't buy this mess that we're "coasting" either.

Lakers05 wrote:The bottom line is that Gasol is just so much better than anything the Cavs have. Before yesterday's game, he was actually ahead of Kobe in EFF. I mean, if we're going to start handing out MVPs to a guy who is 6 EFF points(quite possibly the largest between two MVP candidates ever) inferior to another guy, then the award is truly meaningless.


Now you're just trolling.


No, I'm not. Lakers fans keep whining about Kobe being robbed in 04-05(which was returned last year, because if we went with best player, Paul or Lebron should have won it.) This would be a much bigger injustice, because Lebron not only has the stats, he actually has the wins to back it up, with arguably a bigger talent gap than the 04-05 Lakers and Suns(remember, they had no Amare).

Anyway, if both teams kept winning like this, then it shouldn't really be close. I really really hope the Cavs lose two more games. It'll be very interesting then to see then how the voters will vote.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#67 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:14 pm

Ball Boy wrote:And I find it pretty amusing he left off Varejao... Who is putting up very similar numbers to Odom. Hes not as good as Odom, but he comes close to making up for it with his hustle.. And actually staying focused thru the course of an entire game, something Odom has never been able to do.


While I left out Varejao, I also left off Powell, which quite frankly, "with all things being equal"(if you've been following what I've said, the external factor I was referring to is officiating), I'd take Powell over him. He does everything that Varejao does, but with more range on his shot.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#68 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:22 pm

Lakers05 wrote:No, I'm not.


Yes, you are, in addition to dodging questions.

Lakers05 wrote:Lakers fans keep whining about Kobe being robbed in 04-05(which was returned last year, because if we went with best player, Paul or Lebron should have won it.) This would be a much bigger injustice, because Lebron not only has the stats, he actually has the wins to back it up, with arguably a bigger talent gap than the 04-05 Lakers and Suns(remember, they had no Amare).


Not a single poster in this thread mentioned anything about the 04-05 MVP, that is until you brought it up.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#69 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:23 pm

semi-sentient wrote:
Lakers05 wrote:No, I'm not.


Yes, you are, in addition to dodging questions.

Lakers05 wrote:Lakers fans keep whining about Kobe being robbed in 04-05(which was returned last year, because if we went with best player, Paul or Lebron should have won it.) This would be a much bigger injustice, because Lebron not only has the stats, he actually has the wins to back it up, with arguably a bigger talent gap than the 04-05 Lakers and Suns(remember, they had no Amare).


Not a single poster in this thread mentioned anything about the 04-05 MVP, that is until you brought it up.


What questions have I dodged?
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#70 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:28 pm

Lakers05 wrote:While I left out Varejao, I also left off Powell, which quite frankly, "with all things being equal"(if you've been following what I've said, the external factor I was referring to is officiating), I'd take Powell over him. He does everything that Varejao does, but with more range on his shot.


Are you kidding me? I love Powell and all, but Varejao is the better defender. Powell's main strength is offensive rebounding, but he still falls well short in terms of overall defense and hustle. That, and Powell doesn't even play enough minutes for this comparison to be legit in the first place.

Never mind that Varejao is shooting .533 while Powell is shooting .473. Hurray for range though, right?
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#71 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:28 pm

And the reason I brought up the 04-05 season is because I'm annoyed at how bitchy many Lakers fans are. Kobe was robbed of one MVP and they waive off the award as popularity contests(in the end, it tends to even out.) They keep making claims like best player on the planet, without anything to back it up.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#72 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:28 pm

Lakers05 wrote:What questions have I dodged?


Never mind. I missed your response regarding the external factor.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#73 » by semi-sentient » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:30 pm

Lakers05 wrote:And the reason I brought up the 04-05 season is because I'm annoyed at how bitchy many Lakers fans are. Kobe was robbed of one MVP and they waive off the award as popularity contests(in the end, it tends to even out.) They keep making claims like best player on the planet, without anything to back it up.


Then it might be more appropriate for you to label them Kobe-homers. Most Lakers fans that post on the Lakers board don't even bring that up, and if you go look at the current "Kobe vs. LeBron" MVP thread you will see quite clearly that "we" know who the MVP is this year.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#74 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:30 pm

semi-sentient wrote:
Lakers05 wrote:While I left out Varejao, I also left off Powell, which quite frankly, "with all things being equal"(if you've been following what I've said, the external factor I was referring to is officiating), I'd take Powell over him. He does everything that Varejao does, but with more range on his shot.


Are you kidding me? I love Powell and all, but Varejao is the better defender. Powell's main strength is offensive rebounding, but he still falls well short in terms of overall defense and hustle. That, and Powell doesn't even play enough minutes for this comparison to be legit in the first place.

Never mind that Varejao is shooting .533 while Powell is shooting .473. Hurray for range though, right?


Varejao gets a lot of layups from guys double-teaming Lebron, but those layups come at a price, and you can only see them on possessions where they don't get a good shot, because of poor spacing.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#75 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:33 pm

semi-sentient wrote:
Lakers05 wrote:And the reason I brought up the 04-05 season is because I'm annoyed at how bitchy many Lakers fans are. Kobe was robbed of one MVP and they waive off the award as popularity contests(in the end, it tends to even out.) They keep making claims like best player on the planet, without anything to back it up.


Then it might be more appropriate for you to label them Kobe-homers. Most Lakers fans that post on the Lakers board don't even bring that up, and if you go look at the current "Kobe vs. LeBron" MVP thread you will see quite clearly that "we" know who the MVP is this year.


Many Lakers fans think the MVP is now a popular contest. If that's not a reference to the 04-05 season, what is?
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#76 » by Dat Pass » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:34 pm

No one here said anything about the MVP.

IMO, LeBron is the clear MVP, and I hope he gets it this season, I really do.

But my point in creating this thread was that Im sick of hearing people talk about how little talent LeBron has to work with.. I hear all the time that this team wouldnt make the playoffs in the East (meaning they would probably win 37-40 games total) and people claim that the Lakers would still make the playoffs in the West. (Meaning they still win 50+ games)

Its absurd how little credit the Cavs "role" players get.

And for the record, with Bynum I think Kobe has the best supporting cast in the league.. And even without him he has plenty of talent around him.. But so does LeBron, and Im sick of people saying otherwise. LeBron has PLENTY of help. No way in hell does this team go from a top 10 team ever in league history, to a below .500 team just because of LeBron.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#77 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:41 pm

But they do have very little talent. Objectively, before the season started, I don't see one legit starter on that team. And what do you know, statistically, they don't have one that qualifies, then or now, either.

If they're overachieving by this much, then we must conclude that: Mike Brown is a genius/Phil is an idiot, Lebron is playing at a superhuman level, or the refs have helped them out(or a combination of those.) There are no other factors left.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#78 » by Dat Pass » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:43 pm

Lakers05 wrote:But they do have very little talent. Objectively, before the season started, I don't see one legit starter on that team. And what do you know, statistically, they don't have one that qualifies, then or now, either.


Wow.. :lol:

I honestly am not even going to dignify you with a response.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#79 » by Lakers05 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm

Well, in order to respond, you have to define what a "starter" is.
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Re: Comparing LeBron and Kobes "cast".. 

Post#80 » by Jordan23Forever » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Trade Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Ariza/Fisher for Ilgauskas/Wallace/Varejao/Wally/Williams. Any takers, Laker fans? Thought not.

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