A.Randolph vs M.Beasley

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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#81 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 8:06 pm

BBallFreak wrote:Per 48 is one of the worst arguments you can make. If Randolph were capable of averaging 21 points, 15 boards, 2 assists, 1.7 steals, and 3.6 blocks on average in a 48 minute game, he'd be playing 48 minutes in a game! Reality check - he's not capable of doing that.


He is capable of big numbers, the problem is he is a rookie playing under Don Nelson.

Anyways, I would argue that Randolph is more of an impact player right now and that he has a brighter future. Randolph has something that you can't teach, something that Beasley and most players in the NBA will never have. It's the heart, that killer instinct that players like Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant have. Randolph has that swagger, that mentality and that skill set. The ceiling for Randolph is the top, the very top.

Beasley is a great talent, a future All-Star and he is more of a sure thing than Randolph. But Beasly will never be that player, and I believe Randolph can be.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#82 » by BBallFreak » Sat Apr 4, 2009 8:07 pm

WadeKnicks2010 wrote:I'm making an assumption based on their physical gifts as observed by my own eyes. I probably don't know either of their ceilings either, but going by the trend, the best players this era have been Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe. If you go back beyond that the best players are Wilt, Russel, Kareem, Jordan. Either big man or guards. Not undersized power forwards. No, I'm not saying Randolph will reach those heights nor has the ability to, no one will for a long time. But Beasley is simply not of the superstar mold.


First of all, who said a word about him being a superstar? And you're not mentioning him among guys whom he should draw comparison to, you're saying he's not going to be one of the NBA's all time legends. Fine, who cares. I'll concede that.

Their is a huge discrepancy between him having all star potential and him being freaking Michael Jordan! Charles Barkley and Karl Malone, who were a pair of undersized power forwards btw (Barkley was listed at 6'6" and Malone was 6'9" and 250 pounds, the same height and a mere 5 pounds heavier than Beasley), would have made more sense and again I agree, he doesn't measure up. But freaking Antwan Jamison has been an all star, and you're kidding yourself if you don't think Beasley has that kind of potential.

BTW, Randolph is undersized too. Don't kid yourself. 210 pounds does not a center make in this league. That makes for a nice sized point guard, or Keon Clark, but it does not make for a defensive force in the middle.

He never ever ever will be. Neither of them will get to such an elite level, but that's besides the point. I'm saying Randolph simply has a higher potential.


Based on what?!?!?!?!?! You've given no evidence whatsoever! All you've done is say that Michael Beasley won't ever be the GOAT. Who cares?

Um, the Heat themselves are starting Udonis Haslem over Michael Beasley. And Randolph, unless he completely misses out on his expectations, should be much better than the undrafted and undersized forward who isn't even tall enough to contest bigger players.

Not yet he isn't. And Beasley, unless he completely misses out, should be much better than Haslem, too. I don't see your point. Fine, neither Beasley nor Haslem is a finished product yet. Duh.
So yes defensive big men are much more valuable than a one dimensional offensive player.

No, good defensive big men are better than raw, inexperienced 20 year olds who happen to be one dimensional at the moment. Guess what? Randolph wouldn't start over Haslem, either.
The Heat franchise has been famous for going after solid defensive bigs in the Riley era. He knows how important they are to success. Your team's best forwards, guys like Antoine Walker and Jamal Mashburn, who are always at abundance in the league, weren't quite as instrumental as players like Alonzo Mourning, PJ Brown, hell even Brian Grant in their primes.

I love it!

So, Beasley's ceiling is automatically an over the hill injured Antoine Walker and Randolph's ceiling is Alonzo Mourning?!?!?!?!

BS.
Brand, Boozer, Ben, Kenyon, West, never got to the highest tiers in their position though. Duncan's height and defensive presence elevates him to a level past any of them, same goes for prime Sheed and KG.. Same goes for a guy like Hakeem(different position, i know), Alonzo and Ewing. I'll take the taller defensive players over the undersized scorers at the forward position any day as would most teams around the NBA.

Karl Malone and Charles Barkley.

And you've got one hell of a disgusting misnomer going here! Randolph as prime Sheed or KG?

Duh, I'll take a prime Oscar Robertson over a prime Ray Allen any day of the week. No, really?!?!??!?!?! Who the hell wouldn't?

Let's use a more accurate comparison, shall we? I'm giving realistic options as to where Beasley's potential lies and you're comparing Randolph to KG, Ewing, and The Dream! Give me a break, here! Randolph would be lucky to make it to KG's level today, much less prime KG.

You're just assuming his offense is going to come around and suddenly become, not just passable like a Charles Oakley, but freaking spectacular like Duncan, KG, Sheed, Ewing, Zo, or the Dream. You don't see a problem with that conclusion? Let's draw a similar parallel for Beasley shall we? I think Beasley's going to rebound and defend at prime Dennis Rodman levels, as his offense grows. Don't think that's a fair assumption? Then stop projecting 20+ ppg numbers on Randolph and asking me to swallow it.

Yes, go back to something I'm not trying to imply again. Even after I explicitly cleared it up for you that I wasn't.


So, your assumption that Randolph's got a higher ceiling isn't based on the fact that he was the most NBA-Ready player in the draft? Strange, since this quote comes from YOU in your second post in this thread:

He was the most NBA-Ready player in the draft, hard concept for some to understand but yes that means he's going to be closer to his peak coming in

So, which is it? Does he have a lower ceiling because he was the most NBA ready, or does he have a lower ceiling because you see less potential in him than in Randolph (just like Wade could never be at LeBron's, Melo's, or Darko's level)? At which point were you talking out of your behind; now or then?
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#83 » by J-Rich- » Sat Apr 4, 2009 8:21 pm

NetsForce wrote:This is Beasley and it's not even close. Also don't post Randolph's stats without pace-adjusting first.



Yeah we should never rely on stats. Video is a way better indicator of how good a player is which shows randolph is better than his current numbers
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#84 » by some_rand » Sat Apr 4, 2009 8:29 pm

lol at people talking about pace, the warriors average 5 more fga per game than the heat.
5fg spread over an entire team, not gonna make a huge difference
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#85 » by BayWarrior » Sat Apr 4, 2009 8:34 pm

I have league pass and watch as many Miami games as possible because of Wade. I am however obviously a Warriors fan. That said, forget all the stats and numbers and all these other arguments in this thread for a second. When I watch Randolf play I get excited. He has something I don't see in very many players including Beasley. He is dynamic, entertaining and as heart that is incredible. I would take Randolf any day over Beasley. I'm done with my man crush homer rant now, thanks for tuning in.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#86 » by killacalijatt » Sat Apr 4, 2009 9:24 pm

some_rand wrote:lol at people talking about pace, the warriors average 5 more fga per game than the heat.
5fg spread over an entire team, not gonna make a huge difference


good point, i didnt even see that
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#87 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 9:35 pm

killacalijatt wrote:
some_rand wrote:lol at people talking about pace, the warriors average 5 more fga per game than the heat.
5fg spread over an entire team, not gonna make a huge difference


good point, i didnt even see that


Those extra 5 hurt Randolph more than they help. It's Jackson vs Wade, the ball stopper vs potential MVP.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#88 » by WadeKnicks2010 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 10:16 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
First of all, who said a word about him being a superstar?


A little disappointing. That was in response to the same "ceiling" argument you keep bringing up. Since you fail to see what the term even means, I can see why my responses are confusing you. So forget it.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#89 » by Wade2k6 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 10:18 pm

The GS Warriors are at a pace of 98.5 , which ranks 1st in the entire NBA. The MIA Heat are at a pace of 90.1, which ranks 20th in the league.

I don't know where some of you GS fans are getting your stats from but your stats are wrong.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#90 » by yehyeh82 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:09 pm

The Warriors only shoot 5 more fga because they are second in the league in fta. As for this argument, I am going to wait until the end of next year to make a judgement.

As towards Randolph's ability to guard the post, he is so much stronger than he looks its not even funny. He has that wiry strength that KG has. Plus it helps that he is so intense and takes it personal when players score on him. He has large shoulders that shows me he can easily add 20 lbs (it looks like he has added at least 10 lbs already this season). He has held his own guarding TD and Yao this year, so I find this "strength" argument funny. That's just looking at his body type and making an This argument works for Brandan Wright, but not Randolph.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#91 » by NetsForce » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:12 pm

o_O Randolph is not strong... Yi Jianlian had a couple of plays this year where he man-handled Randolph in the post.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#92 » by WadeKnicks2010 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:14 pm

NetsForce wrote: Yi Jianlian had a couple of plays this year where he man-handled Randolph in the post.


Did he use Kung Fu?
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#93 » by yehyeh82 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:20 pm

Give me a break, Yi was TERRIBLE when he played Randolph...
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#94 » by WadeKnicks2010 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:22 pm

And look at that. The Heat are starting Yakhouba Diawara over Michael Beasley too. Even the Heat knows what kind of player Beasley is. First they play undrafted PF Haslem over him, and now d-leaguer diawara who they just picked up this offseason and has absolutely no recognition in this league.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#95 » by NetsForce » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:25 pm

yehyeh82 wrote:Give me a break, Yi was TERRIBLE when he played Randolph...


Which made his post moves scored in Randolph's grill even more impressive.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#96 » by yehyeh82 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:27 pm

He shot 1-5 in that game, how many post moves scored did he have?
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#97 » by Wade2k6 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:27 pm

WadeKnicks2010 wrote:And look at that. The Heat are starting Yakhouba Diawara over Michael Beasley too. Even the Heat knows what kind of player Beasley is. First they play undrafted PF Haslem over him, and now d-leaguer diawara who they just picked up this offseason and has absolutely no recognition in this league.

And does that show the inconsistency he gets from his coach or the that Diawara is better then Beasley? There is no reason why Spo should have started Diawara over Beasley.

And this goes to show that Randolph isn't the only rookie who's on a short leash.
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#98 » by some_rand » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:39 pm

NetsForce wrote:
yehyeh82 wrote:Give me a break, Yi was TERRIBLE when he played Randolph...


Which made his post moves scored in Randolph's grill even more impressive.

rofl, yi's amazing stats in 2 games vs the warriors:
1ppg, 5rpg, 1.5TO, 3 fouls on 11.1% shooting
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#99 » by WadeKnicks2010 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 11:56 pm

Beasley's not on a short leash. He just isn't playing defense. Diawara does. Spo's of Riley's school of coaching, u play the guys who are defending for you and do the hustle dirty blue collar work. Beasley doesn't do any of that. If I recall correctly Spo said he'd also play Beasley more if he'd rebound more too right?
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Re: A.Randolph vs M.Beasley 

Post#100 » by Wade2k6 » Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:01 am

WadeKnicks2010 wrote:Beasley's not on a short leash. He just isn't playing defense. Diawara does. Spo's of Riley's school of coaching, u play the guys who are defending for you and do the hustle dirty blue collar work. Beasley doesn't do any of that. If I recall correctly Spo said he'd also play Beasley more if he'd rebound more too right?

No thats where you're wrong. I watch every Heat game all year and Beasley is on a short leash. You obviously don't watch enough Heat games because Beasleys man defense has been pretty decent for the most part since the all-star break.

If that's the case why was Quinn playing so much during the middle of the season-because he played non-existent defense.

And yes, Spo did say that.

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