rrravenred wrote:Optms wrote:Why is this even a question?
You're comparing a number 1 option future HOF who's just one a Championship as the leader of a stacked, Phil-Jackson coached team to a guy who won the same number of MVPs, one fewer scoring titles in a less guard-friendly league and oh, a DPOY and never won any rings , which had nothing to do with Jordan or Hakeem putting up GOAT-level seasons at all as the leader to his own team? (Please Use More Appropriate Word). You'd think you would ask for "Kobe or Duncan to start your team with." Much more sense in that.
Fixed.
The excuses to discredit Kobe's acheivements are becoming less and less persuasive. I know it hurts that gone are the days where you could simply say "Kobe hasn't won without Shaq." The fact of the matter is, Gasol was an All NBA 3rd team player. Outside of Gasol, the Lakers had no all stars. Howard played with two other all stars - Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis. Truth be told, Hedo was playing like an all star.
I mean, you look at Bryant's supporting cast and it isn't really all that great.
Fisher - He is a smart and tough player, but his old age and loss of shooting touch have made his defeciencies outweigh his positives in the vast majority of games in which he plays.
Ariza - Trevor Ariza was a player that could not even get into a rotation, much less start before he played with the Lakers. Trevor's evolution as a player can be directly traced to Kobe's ability as a leader (giving Ariza his shooting bible and workout plan) and Kobe's ability to create open looks for Trevor. Ariza is a good defender, but he's not anywhere near an All NBA level defender and while he made timely plays in the playoffs, his production both in the regular season and the playoffs was no more than a role player.
Pau Gasol - Pau Gasol is legit. Great passer from the post. When he faces up, he can shoot the jumper. He has great touch around the basket. His pick and roll defense is suspect and his ability to guard bigger players makes him a pretty significant defensive liability. A huge upgrade from Kwame Brown and a legit all star, but Gasol wasn't even considered a top 25 player before he got to the Lakers and now he's with Kobe and he's considered by some to be top 10. Kobe has been considered a top 3 player in the league for 6 or 7 years now.
Andrew Bynum - Bynum's production in relation to his potential are disappointing. He's not anywhere near being a dominant center. He's got great shot blocking ability, but an inability to avoid fouls. He has great post moves, but his real game is in his explosiveness. While we have seen glimpses of what Bynum could be one day, injuries have prevented him from being consistent. Bynum was injured half the season and his play in the playoffs can be fairly described as "mediocre at best." His PER and raw production both suggest this.
Jordan Farmar - You're kidding right? Laker fans everywhere are trying to find ways to ship him out with Adam Morrison. This is despite the fact that Farmar went to UCLA. His inability to defend combined with his ability to seeming make an infinite number of mistakes in a three minute stretch infuriates fans.
Sasha Vujacic - You do mean the guy who didn't score a point in the finals?
Lamar Odom - Great versatile player. An asset coming off the bench and a bonafide starter. He rebounds, he scores and facilitates. Still, his inconsistency is apparent and his average game is comparable to a slightly above average player at his position. Also note that although he comes off the bench, he still plays starter minutes.
Josh Powell - Um....I love Josh's energy.
D.J. Mbenga - Um...he's been through alot.
Shannon Brown - Um...
So in reality, the team is not that stacked at all. It certainly isn't anymore stacked than the Celtics or the Magic or the Nuggets or the Jazz or a healthy Houston. Those are all better teams top to bottom, but the reality is Kobe is such a dominant player that when you give him just those pieces above it LOOKS like it is unfair. That's how good kobe is.
So True.