Rick Barry or Isiah Thomas

[Warspite]

You really need to understand what Barry did in 1975 though. I'd argue that at his peak he was better that anybody. Imagine if Iverson led Sixers to the Finals in 2001 and then proceeded to sweep Shaq-Kobe LAL. He would have been crowned GOAT at the spot, that's no way over it. And Barry did just that. He absolutely dismantled the Bullets, who had two HOF players (Unseld and Hayes), a legit All-Star at the time (Chenier) and a group of nice role players (Riordan and Porter). Barry had Wilkes, who was a friggin' sophomore and wasn't even that good as his second scorer, a nice defensive center in Clifford Ray and a couple of career journeymen (Beard, Johnson).

Phil Smith - two time all-star he was a rookie at the time and averaged a whoopin' 7.7 ppg on 14 mpg. An All-Star no doubt.
Jamaal Wilkes - three time all star, rookie of the year he too was a rookie at the time, that was the year he won ROY over Bill Walton, riding Barry's coattails.
Butch Beard - one time all star who was past his prime and got traded immediately after they won the chip along with the 1st round pick for Dwight Davis, who in turn averaged 8.6 points in 340 career regular season games. You couldn't make this stuff up.

So, Barry had two rookies getting rotational minutes, one of them was actually his second scorer and he still took that team all the way. Tell me about Thomas teammates.

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isaih Thomas) no 1st,2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed.

More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them.
Theres no doubt Isaihs team was better than Barrys but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

[Minge]

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isiah Thomas) no 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed. More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them. Theres no doubt Isiah's team was better than Barry's but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

Magic's Lakers, without Magic, nor 20 ppg scorer and starting shooting guard Byron Scott. I always enjoy how those little details are omitted when hyping up that '89 team. But, I don't expect anyone to actually tell the truth as to why the Lakers lost in '89 and '04; and it wasn't because the better team won.

[piston1423]

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isiah Thomas) no 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed. More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them. Theres no doubt Isiah's team was better than Barry's but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

Magic's Lakers, without Magic, nor 20 ppg scorer and starting shooting guard Byron Scott. I always enjoy how those little details are omitted when hyping up that '89 team. But, I don't expect anyone to actually tell the truth as to why the Lakers lost in '89 and '04; and it wasn't because the better team won.

The Lakers were not going to beat the Pistons in 89 with Magic or Scott anyways. They barly beat us the year before and that was because of a wrong call on laimbeer in 88. Other wise the Pistons would of went on a 3peat. 04 The Pistons were just a monster on defense. The Lakers were never the better team in any of the 3 years.

[JordansBulls]

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isaih Thomas) no 1st,2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed.

More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them.
Theres no doubt Isaihs team was better than Barrys but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

Yeah, didn't Dumars win finals mvp that year?

In 1990 the year Isiah won finals MVP he finished 4th in Total Win Shares on his team behind Laimbeer, Dumars and Rodman. In fact he finished 4th in win shares in 1989 as well. How does a guy get most of the credit for carrying his team when he finishes 4th in Win Shares?

[Warspite]

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isaih Thomas) no 1st,2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed.

More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them.
Theres no doubt Isaihs team was better than Barrys but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

Yeah, didn't Dumars win finals mvp that year?

In 1990 the year Isiah won finals MVP he finished 4th in Total Win Shares on his team behind Laimbeer, Dumars and Rodman. In fact he finished 4th in win shares in 1989 as well. How does a guy get most of the credit for carrying his team when he finishes 4th in Win Shares?

No I dont recall Dumars winning the NBA FInals MVP during the regular season. Dumars didnt win teh FInals MVP untill after the 89 season was over.

I still dont get your whole argument but then I dont expect a fan of a team thats called MJ and the Jordaniares to understand team basketball. Nor do I expect a non basketball fan to understand the role of a PG.


We all know that if the Bulls had a huge adv matchup at SF MJ is still taking 40% of his teams shots. With a HoF PG like Isiah you have a team that can take adv of teams mismatches while with MJ hes always going to take the lions share so a #2 option can never win an award. Also awards are given to popular people and theres no way a felon like Pippen could ever win a close election over MJ while a popular Dumars (has an award named after him with Russell) can beat a very unpopular Isiah.

I have always asked : What do you think Isiah was doing while a spot up jump shooter was winning MVP while making these wide open shots?

[Tirion]

Phil Smith - two time all-star he was a rookie at the time and averaged a whoopin' 7.7 ppg on 14 mpg. An All-Star no doubt.
Jamaal Wilkes - three time all star, rookie of the year he too was a rookie at the time, that was the year he won ROY over Bill Walton, riding Barry's coattails.
Butch Beard - one time all star who was past his prime and got traded immediately after they won the chip along with the 1st round pick for Dwight Davis, who in turn averaged 8.6 points in 340 career regular season games. You couldn't make this stuff up.

So, Barry had two rookies getting rotational minutes, one of them was actually his second scorer and he still took that team all the way. Tell me about Thomas teammates.

1989 Pistons 1 allstar player (Isaih Thomas) no 1st,2nd or 3rd team all nba players. No player in top 25 in scoring. Traded its leading scorer midseason. Its leading rebounder comes off the bench. No player in the top 25 in steals or blocks but the team is 2nd in ppg allowed.

More impressively the team beat Birds Celtics, MJs Bulls and Magics Lakers in the playoffs with a 11-2 record against them.
Theres no doubt Isaihs team was better than Barrys but again Isiah played teams in the playoffs that could beat Barrys allstar team.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19741975.html

The reasons for the oversight were simple enough. Golden State had undergone several key personnel changes, and adjustments had to be made. At the start of the season, many writers hadn't even picked the Warriors to make the playoffs.

The franchise had needed cash, so before the season began management had traded veteran center Nate Thurmond to Chicago for center Clifford Ray, a first-round draft pick and $500,000. The deal wasn't exactly considered a blockbuster for Golden State. Ray was viewed as a journeyman and he had undergone major knee surgery just two seasons earlier.

Before the season opened, Golden State watched forwards Cazzie Russell and Clyde Lee head to other clubs. Then Derrek Dickey was hampered by injury. As a result, Wilkes found himself the starting power forward, an unlikely development. A willowy 6-foot-6, 190-pounder, Wilkes had been a controversial first-round selection, eliciting questions and complaints from fans and Bay Area writers. At best, Wilkes was forecast as a backup to Barry at small forward, and the team had other critical needs.

So to conclude: a completely revamped frontcourt with a journeyman center and a rookie forward who was starting out of position at PF. Undersized backcourt without a true point-guard. Full court press defense used almost full time - another sure sign of an undersized team lacking individual defensive talent. You can't seriously compare the talent level of that team with 1989 Pistons.

[Warspite]

of course Im not. I consider the Bad Boys better than any 70s team except the Bucks and Knicks championship teams. Comparing 80s baskteball to 70s NBA pre merger is like comparing college to pro sports. Its much eaiser for 1 player to have a superstar impact in the 70s than in the 80s. Isiah beat Bird, Squid, MJ and Magic/KAJ in the same yr in the playoffs. Barry not only didnt face he caliber of players or teams he played 1 less rd of playoffs.

Im taking anything away from Barry because his 1 yr run was awsome but Isiah did this for 6 straight yrs. Where was Barry the yr before or after? Isiah was beating Birds/MJs brains in and loseing to Magic only because of a his injury in game 6 and the refs in game 7. The yr afterwards isiah with the same cast but all older won the title again.

The Pistons also went through what the Warriors didnt and that expansion. The Pistons lost there starting PF to the expansion draft and still won the title.