Acie Law

[HoopsGuru25]

It is funny how people act like playing Acie is such a big risk somehow.

What is the big risk? Even with AJ playing big minutes the Hawks are a borderline playoff team. It isn't like we are contenders.

Acie gives us a speed dimension that simply isn't there with AJ. Every game he gets to the basket frequently. i don't see how it is such a reach to think he can start finishing better, collapsing the D and leaving easier shots for other players.

Tonight he was in the game for awhile with all bench players and JJ. it isn't as easy to pick up assists in that lineup. It was interesting that JR Smith kept going at Acie with no luck.

Even if they split time evenly that would probably work better because let's face it AJ isn't getting any younger.

The funny thing is that it was AJ who made the dumb mistakes down the stretch and not the rookie. AJ had a carry called on him when Denver was making their comeback and he also made the dumb foul on the inbounds play(Denver would have scored with NO time going off the clock)that the refs bailed us out on.

[tontoz]

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The funny thing is that it was AJ who made the dumb mistakes down the stretch and not the rookie. AJ had a carry called on him when Denver was making their comeback and he also made the dumb foul on the inbounds play(Denver would have scored with NO time going off the clock)that the refs bailed us out on.

yeah that was annoying but it was just one game.

How many times did Acie beat his man off the dribble? Seems like he can do it whenever he wants.

[High 5]

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yeah that was annoying but it was just one game.

How many times did Acie beat his man off the dribble? Seems like he can do it whenever he wants.

Funny how you (used to?) hate on Horford but defend Law.

[tontoz]

Funny how you (used to?) hate on Horford but defend Law

That is because at that time Horford had more turnovers than field goals.

Horford got clowned pretty badly tonight but fortunately it didn't cost us.

[High 5]

Funny how you (used to?) hate on Horford but defend Law

That is because at that time Horford had more turnovers than field goals.

Horford got clowned pretty badly tonight but fortunately it didn't cost us.

Law is shooting 37% and averaging .9 more assists than turnovers and hasn't played much defefnse. Horford has given us solid defense and rebounding from game one. Hell, he averages more rebounds than Law averages points, assists, rebounds and steals all together. He played great defensively tonight.

[tontoz]

Law is shooting 37% and averaging .9 more assists than turnovers and hasn't played much defefnse.

If you think Law isn't playing much defense you aren't paying attention.

10 of his 34 turnovers came in the first 3 games.

It isn't like Horford is lighting up the league. He is averaging 9 pts in 31 minutes.

[High 5]

Law is shooting 37% and averaging .9 more assists than turnovers and hasn't played much defefnse.

If you think Law isn't playing much defense you aren't paying attention.

10 of his 34 turnovers came in the first 3 games.

It isn't like Horford is lighting up the league. He is averaging 9 pts in 31 minutes.

I have seen Law taken to school more than few times. There is no way you can say Law has been a good defender. Definitely not compared to how Horford has done. There's more to the game than just scoring. Horford's already a great rebounder for anyone and a good defender for a rookie. He still shoots 50%. Like I said, more rebounds (points too) than Law has points, assists, rebounds and steals. That's ridiculous.

Anyways, whatever floats your boat. I just find it strange you can hate on such a great contributor but defend a player who has arguably done more bad than good.

[JoshB914]

Whether you guys like +/- or not AJ is leading IV every category imaginable. I want to make the playoffs and we have a legit shot fo rhte first time in ages. I don't want to risk giving it all away to aid a rookies development. So yes, I would prefer to play it safe.

IV played well tonight. He finished well which is big for him with that quick first step. And Woody rewarded his good play with 22 minutes. If he plays like that, he will get plenty of clock.

[tontoz]

I have seen Law taken to school more than few times.

Like when? Certainly not tonight or any time recently. If anything he is too aggressive and picks up to many fouls.

He still shoots 50%. Like I said, more rebounds (points too) than Law has points, assists, rebounds and steals. That's ridiculous.

I am sure minutes played doesn't come into play at all there.

I just find it strange you can hate on such a great contributor

If you were paying attention you would have known that i was very specific about what Horford needed to do differently.

1) stop trying to back down bigger players.
2) start shooting that midrange shot .he started doing that right after that but hasn't taken as many lately.
3) once his midrange shot was established he should look to take bigger players off the dribble.

He has done 1 and 2, therefore his turnovers have gone down. He still turns it over way too much for a guy who doesn't get many touches.

I am still waiting on 3 though. I haven't seen him beat bigger guys off the dribble at all.

I still don't see where his shots will come from playing with the starters.

[tbhawksfan]

Acie had a nice game against DEN. 33FG% isn't so good, but he'll break out with his shot before too long. He got 5 assists, a board and only one TO in 22 minutes of play in a win. Also a +6 PER.

I'm looking for step by step progress.

The Hawks still tighten up and have a hard time finishing. I think coaching absolutely has something to do with it. Walking the ball up most of the second half, when everyone (except Woody) knows we are better running is bad coaching.

I think Acie's (and others) tentative play is also a result of coaching. It might, at some level, help in the long run by slowing things down for them. It seems to help some players (being reigned-in) while others really struggle under that tight environment.

I think Woody could loosen it up a bit with the controlled environment and he definately needs to keep running it down the other teams throats until their done.

[conleyorbust]

Whether you guys like +/- or not AJ is leading IV every category imaginable. I want to make the playoffs and we have a legit shot fo rhte first time in ages. I don't want to risk giving it all away to aid a rookies development. So yes, I would prefer to play it safe.

IV played well tonight. He finished well which is big for him with that quick first step. And Woody rewarded his good play with 22 minutes. If he plays like that, he will get plenty of clock.

Well said, a few more games like this and he'll gain everybodies trust.

[Rip2137]

I don't see how anyone can claim that Law hasn't been a great defender for us at the point this year. Definately the best defensively at that position for our team.

He played well last night. he is still all kinds of off with his jumper which looks to be more nerves than anything, plus I am not sure he has consistant 3 point range. i think his consistant range is about a step in.

Defensively he was great last night. nothing else I can say there. He had some good assist and a couple of great set up plays that led to asssit and a couple of plays that would have been assist if the person hadn't been fouled.

I am still not terribly fond of the Tyronne Lue/Law backcourt that woody has been using as of late, I would much rather have mario West in those minutes, but hey, if it ain't broke.

[tontoz]

plus I am not sure he has consistant 3 point range.

Coming into the season that was my main concern. Watching him in college i was confident he could do everything else well but i was not sold on his shot from deep.

While he is basically missing everthing his misses are generally long or shot, not off to the side which is a good sign. Seeing him up close in person his shot actually has decent rotation and his release isn't as bad as i thought.

His strength in college was his midrange game which he hasn't really shown at all.

[Rip2137]

When he consistantly starts finishing at the rim, guys are going to have to give him room. Right now, they are playing him tight, he is blowing by them and missing his layups. Play in his chest would probably be the scouting report on him right now with his inability to finish.

With a breakout game or two, he would be able to get his midrange game going.

[smabie]

Ha. This will be fun. Lets compare Acie to this point with another player from his rookie season. Here is Acie's statline from this year:

44.3 TS% 10.5 P/40 2.5 R/40 5.1 A/40 25.3 AST% 15.9 TO 6.87 PER

Mystery Player:
48.4 TS% 10.9 P/40 4.2 R/40 5.1 A/40 26.5 AST% 14.9 TO 8.90 PER

Care to guess who the mystery player is? Royal Ivey. Across the board Ivey was more productive than law. Do you think that Ivey was just screwed because he didn't play enough minutes?

You do realize just how stupid this game of compare the rookie seasons of PGs across history is, don't you?

Well, maybe you don't. So I'll show you....

First is AC. Rest listed below.

MPG FG% FT% 3PT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
17.8 36.9 82.1 16.7 1.1 2.4 0.8 - 4.7
29.4 41.9 67.5 32.3 2.6 4.3 1.2 0.1 9.2
10.5 42.3 82.3 41.8 1.0 2.1 0.3 - 3.3
21.9 45.9 86.0 41.5 2.1 3.5 0.8 0.1 9.1
17.0 41.8 84.1 29.6 2.0 2.9 0.9 0.1 6.7
12.5 43.1 57.1 43.8 0.4 1.7 0.3 - 5.0
18.3 48.7 75.0 50.0 1.5 2.1 0.4 - 6.0
12.3 42.7 79.2 32.4 0.8 1.2 0.5 - 3.4
20.6 42.7 76.2 44.7 1.7 3.5 0.7 - 7.8
26.5 43.3 87.5 34.1 2.0 3.5 0.6 0.0 8.6


1, as I said, is AC.
2, Tony Parker.
3, Steve Nash. 4 is Nash's 2nd season.
5, Sam Cassell.
6, Tyronn Lue. 7 - 10 is Lue's 2nd thru 5th seasons.

So I suppose you're argument, then, is that if Royal Ivey was given the proper amount of time, he'd be the best PG in history?

Whereas my point is that we don't know what AC is truly capable of, because he isn't played consistently enough to know. And yes, I know he's AVERAGING 16 minutes per game for the month of January. If you don't count the games he's been held out of by Woodson. But half of those games that are counted have been for 20+, the other half for at most 13. So he's not being played consistently.

So the question becomes, is it the chicken or the egg? Is he played inconsistently because he's been playing poorly (which I believe I understand your position to be, kb?), or is he playing poorly because he's been played inconsistently (which would be tontoz position)?

My opinion: Woodson sucks, Woodson sucks, and Woodson sucks, and therefor anything that happens with Acie, negative or positive, needs to be weighed with that.

[JoshB914]

What? So since IV gets 22 minutes one game and 13 the next he is struggling? If that is the reason (it is not) then we drafted a pretty mentally soft kid.

I think Woody is actually using IV perfectly. He's giving him minutes and evaluating what he can do on a consistent basis. I think that IV's improvement over the past few games has been because Woody has CONTINUED to play him despite his struggles. If last night was any indication, IV is starting to find himself and I give a lot of credit to Woody for not giving up on him.

[killbuckner]

smable- well your chart is a little jumbled, not sure exactly what you weere trying to point out with it. Once again I don't think you realize how bad Acie has been. PER is a nice all around stat that doesn't depend on playing a large number of minutes. Here are the numbers for all the players you have listed in a format that will hopefully be much easier to read. (PER doesn't take into account defense- but then again none of your numbers did either)

Acie Law- 6.4
Tony Parker Y1- 11.7
Steve Nash Y1- 10.8
Steve Nash Y2- 15.6
Sam cassell- 13.1
Lue Y2- 10.5
Lue Y3- 8.7
Lue Y4- 13.7
Lue Y5- 12.9

So if the point of your chart was to show that Acie has been worse than every player in every year of your example then thanks.

And anyway- never have I said that Acies struggles this season mean that he can't turn it around in the future. I have made a point to say over and over that he has time to develop. But he has been one of the worst pointguards in the league this year and I think that playing him significantly more this season will hurt the Hawks playoff chances. THIS ISN'T A SLAM ON ACIE. Its just really hard to find a rookie PG that can be an asset to a playoff team in his first season.

Steve Nash averaged 10 minutes a game his rookie year. Sam Cassell averaged 17 minutes a game his rookie year. This is a fine amount of time to give a rookie to let him develop. Put the rookie in when he is in position to do well- if he starts to earn more PT then give him more PT. If you don't care about making the playoffs then by all means give the kid 30 minutes a game to see what you have. But otherwise I think having him average 15 minutes a game is just about right.