Another good reason to look for a trade

[Jjforprez]

If this leg injury with JJ is eventually going to shut him down for awhile, we need to bring in another scorer. We already need one anyway, but if anything happens to JJ it's really going to hurt the team with this much time still left to play.

Our playoffs hopes are still alive. This is not like last season where we were towards the end, and we knew this team wasn't going anywhere. I'd hate to see ownership let these guys down, and just watch them fade away after working so hard.

[killbuckner]

Just be aware that BK made a trade last season he thought could push the Hawks into the playoffs. That was the point of acquiring AJ- to make the playoffs so the Suns would get the Hawks pick last season. Of course because BK is so incompetent the Hawks ended up going even more downhill after that trade and the Hawks lucked into Horford. I am just reminding everyone that is hoping for a trade that BK is the one making the trade.

[Atowngetdown]

We should make a trade with the Nets

Shelden & Zaza

for

Magloire, Nacbar & Marcus Williams

[HMFFL]

Just be aware that BK made a trade last season he thought could push the Hawks into the playoffs. That was the point of acquiring AJ- to make the playoffs so the Suns would get the Hawks pick last season. Of course because BK is so incompetent the Hawks ended up going even more downhill after that trade and the Hawks lucked into Horford. I am just reminding everyone that is hoping for a trade that BK is the one making the trade.

I think your investing way too much thought into your reasoning for acquiring AJ. I can't accept that Billy would think AJ puts us into the playoffs. My theory is that Billy knew the chances were going to be high that we would acquire the first round pick from the Pacers, so I can't see us wanting to pay for two first round guarantee contracts, and paying the second round pick. We have options with any second round pick, but why not move it, instead of adding the extra salary?

Obviously AJ was suppose to bring some depth here, but we didn't exactly use him correctly after acquiring him, and I credit many of our wins to AJ this season. AJ's also shown that he has some leadership skills and I can't say that about many of our Hawks. Pretty small investment when your rolling with scrubs like Tyronn Lue and Speedy.

[killbuckner]

HMFFL- but you need to remember that the Hawks were set to have significant caproom this past offseason until they made the AJ trade. When they made the deal they were only a few games out of the playoffs as I recall- after that is when the team just imploded. Second round picks save the team money. Either you sign a guy for the minimum (non-guaranteed if you want) or you can take an overseas player and just acquire someone's rights without paying them a dime. AJ makes a ton more than any second round pick would have. The only possible justification for giving up that caproom would have been to make a push for the playoffs.

[evildallas]

I never understood the AJ trade. The team that really was motivated to make the deal was Dallas because they were over the luxury tax and this deal got them down below it last season. Yet we gave up a pick. Some people argued that the expiring contract would be valuable.

To be honest the AJ trade has worked out (just a year late) for filling a need, but I can't say what alternate scenarios never got to play out because of his salary cap impact.

I don't buy the logic that we were concerned about paying two firsts. We were equally as close to having no picks and because of crappy protection we had to be a lesser winner in a lottery to keep one of those picks. I would believe that BK didn't value the 2nd round pick highly due to his track record in the 2nd round. He hasn't been very good at identify which 2nd rounders are ready to step in and make an impact with an NBA team.

If nothing is done with the expiring deals that aren't playing much and the team fails to make the playoffs then I think that BK will have some explaining to do to the owners. As important as it as cap space may be, so is making the playoffs important to continuing the development of the young core.

[HMFFL]

KB, I'd like to think Billy involves the future into his plans and not just one year of cap space. Hawk fans were screaming for a point guard, however, they wanted us to move a bad contract for one, and that's just not going to happen. I believe I understand the trade and I continue to support it. I don't view it a negative like many Hawk fans do.

AJ > 2nd round pick. After what AJ has done this year, it's working out for us, and he's providing more then a second round pick would.

I truly believe too many Hawk fans look at this as a negative! It reminds me of when the rumored Nene trade comes up and look what's happened to him. Billy continue to gets criticized for passing on that and that's another situation that's worked out for us.

[killbuckner]

HMFFL- the question is whether AJ was worth 8 million dollars in caproom which is what BK gave up in order to acquire him. Hawks fans were clamoring for a PG because they wanted to make the playoffs last season so the pick going to the suns would be out of the lottery- BK just ended up getting bailed out by the pingpong balls because his plan worked out so terribly. Maybe making the playoffs would have been worth giving up 8 million in caproom. But you need to remember that the real cost of acquiring AJ was the caproom, not just the draftpick.

[HMFFL]

HMFFL- the question is whether AJ was worth 8 million dollars in caproom which is what BK gave up in order to acquire him. Hawks fans were clamoring for a PG because they wanted to make the playoffs last season so the pick going to the suns would be out of the lottery- BK just ended up getting bailed out by the pingpong balls because his plan worked out so terribly. Maybe making the playoffs would have been worth giving up 8 million in caproom. But you need to remember that the real cost of acquiring AJ was the caproom, not just the draftpick.

I truly understand your points, however, who did you think we would pursue if we had the cap space? I just don't see it handicapping us to the extent you do. Not you, but I suppose some fans we're expecting Chauncey Billups? It's not like we had a chance at anyone that would put us into a better position. Free agency was thin for crying out loud.

[killbuckner]

But HMFFL- remember the position the Hawks were in at the time the trade was made. Indy was still comfortably in the playoffs so the pick the Hawks were supposed to get was going to be in the 20's. The Hawks were just a few games out of the playoffs and the odds of keeping their own pick were not good at all. Think about how this team would look if it didn't have Horford on it? I think the Hawks absolutely would have needed to spend some FA dollars in that situation. Even if the Hawks didn't like the available options in FA they could have taken Kurt Thomas from the Suns and gotten 2 draftpicks in the bargain. 8 million in caproom has value- and BK wasted that value for a decent backup PG. If he did it to make the playoffs then I think you could make the argument that it would be worth it for the franchise, but to give up that future value and have the Hawks get even worse is an absolutely incompetent trade.

[smabie]

Anthony Johnson had, at the time, a year and a half remaining on a 4 year, $10M contract. Despite backups minutes for Dallas that season (which are different from Hawks backup minutes, in that Dallas backups actually play almost every game; but he was averaging 14 minutes a game), he was averaging 5.5 assists per 40 minutes played, which is actually a pretty good number, I think. Especially, as I said, since he was getting backup minutes, and especially since at the time the Hawks didn't have much of an other option. 5.5 assists for a 2nd round player, and very roughly $3.75M over 1.5 seasons (I know it was more, due to scale increases and such, but I don't have the specific numbers), isn't that bad for a backup. And definitely more valuable than anyone who could be acquired with a 2nd round pick. And Dallas was willing to get rid of him because they had depth at PG, and wanted to get rid of the contract...

Now, let's look at someone else for comparison. Let's look at, oh, I don't know, someone at random... How about Andre Miller of the Sixers. Maybe you've heard of him, maybe not...

Anyway, this year, Andre is averaging 6.8 assists per 40 minutes -- a very good number, yes -- though admittedly as a starter, so he gets a better opportunity to acquire assists than a backup would. Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, AJ this year is averaging 7.4 assists per 40 minutes.

But Miller's very valuable as a 3-pt shooter -- oh, scratch that, he's shot 2 for 16 from beyond the arc this year, which is admittedly better than the 1-19 last season. (For the record, while a backup at Dallas last season, AJ made 11 of 29 3s. ) But he is a real PG, and a starter no less. (So why would Philadelphia want to trade him? Oh, because they have someone else who they really want to start, but can't in good faith bench Andre for various reasons...)

So let's see, back to comparing to the AJ trade last season... Andre Miller's even only got a season and a half left on his contract, so that's a great comparison there, right? Oh, but that was a 6 yr, $51M contract, wasn't it... Well, no wonder the Sixers won't stop starting Andre, the fans would literally kill 'em in Philly. So that's, let's see... $12.75M for a year and a half? So literally 3.5 times as much as AJ's getting paid over the same amount of time?

So let's see, what would Philly take for Miller? A 2nd round pick? I think not; the Hawks would have to trade a significant amount of their depth, including a quality bench player or maybe even starter, to get him; not just because Philly would demand it, but because of salary inequities, the Hawks would have almost no choice. And what would happen, when Atlanta gets Miller and Philly doesn't have him anymore? Oh, right, Philly would get a ton of cap space, and Atlanta wouldn't have it anymore, since they'll still be paying Miller next season. And then Philly could go and sign some FA, maybe even a very high quality RFA to some outlandishly huge contract, so that his original team couldn't afford to match. Gee, we don't know any RFAs like that, do we?

So tell ya what, kb. Why don't you take your "I want to get Andre Miller, he's the bomb!" talk, and go back to Philly, since obviously the only team who wins out with a Atlanta-gets-Miller scenario is Philly.

[killbuckner]

smable- the Hawks aren't going to have any significant caproom this offseason unless they start unloading contracts. Coming into this season I didn't think that they would be looking to trade Zaza or Shelden for expirings so I thought the only way to have caproom would have been to trade Childress. If the Hawks want to trade Zaza and Shelden to clear more caproom to pursue someone in particular then maybe MIller isn't the right way to go. My general thought with Miller is that the Hawks aren't going to make a splash in FA this offseason so acquiring miller's extra season is not a problem. Compare this to last offseason where trading for AJ was goign to take the Hawks below the MLE for FA.

And Miller's worst season was more productive than AJ's best season. I think its pretty ridiculous to even make that comparison. AJ is a decent backup PG- Andre MIller is a quality starting PG. This team needs a quality starting PG.