Lue will be the downfall of the Hawks

evildallas · Post #21 » by **evildallas** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:55 am

Define "Downfall"

SouthernBred · Post #22 » by **SouthernBred** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:18 am

Basically playing him causes the game to slow down. He makes us a halfcourt team (we are better when we run which is anti-Lue) because he walks it up all the time and dribbles out the shot clock. He can't play D, can't pass well, board, or finish in traffic.

He's been with us for 4 years now, its time to move on. If he wasn't on the Hawks I'd be surprised if he was still in the L. He should not be given more minutes the Law.

"Downfall" = cause us to lose and will knock us out the playoffs especially when paired with Zaza (the 6'11'' shooting guard) for extended minutes.

But he is a good shooter when open. Now if Acie had his shooting touch...

evildallas · Post #23 » by **evildallas** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:39 am

Thank you. I think we have a lot of ways we lose. Lue is just one of him.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #24 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:27 am

omgz soloman averaged 7 ppg in the last month of his rookie season...

play the scrubs!!

JoshB914 · Post #25 » by **JoshB914** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:39 am

T Lue played five minutes tonight while the golden child Acie Law plays 25. We lost by 20. Could it possibly be true that T Lue is the least of this teams problems?

HoopsGuru25 · Post #26 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:16 am

JoshB914 wrote:T Lue played five minutes tonight while the golden child Acie Law plays 25. We lost by 20. Could it possibly be true that T Lue is the least of this teams problems?

It could also be that the game was over before it started. The Hawks were down by double digits 5 minutes into the game. The reason Lue only played 4 minutes is because Woody didn't see the point of using him when we were down 20 points early in the 2nd quarter. Of course Woody is going to play Law 23 minutes when you are getting curb stomped on the 2nd night of a back to back...just like he's going to use Mario West and Shelden too. I also don't think people view Lue as a huge problem on the Hawks. I think Woody playing Lue or AJ over Law is a huge problem.

I think Law should start..not just play garbage minutes or get a 3 minute stint in the 2nd quarter to prove himself. Do you expect a rookie point guard to play well on a consistent basis not knowing when or how long he's going to play? Maybe Woodson would just start him and give him a consistent 25 minutes a night to properly evaluate and develop him. I could see if we had Andre Miller or Bibby at point guard but we have AJ who sucks and who is a free agent after this year. Starting Law and bringing Lue/AJ(preferably Lue)off the bench seems to be the only logical option for this team.

SouthernBred · Post #27 » by **SouthernBred** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:31 am

You probably didnt even watch the game to say something like that. All the starters had a bad game, this game was over from the tip. I know Lue isn't why we lose all our games (he helps to) but he is below average and shouldn't play more that Law. Lue plays 30min against the Cleveland scrubs and we lose...hmmm.

Yao took this game over. Rockets have won like 9 straight.

D21 · Post #28 » by **D21** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:01 pm

JoshB914 wrote:T Lue played five minutes tonight while the golden child Acie Law plays 25. We lost by 20. Could it possibly be true that T Lue is the least of this teams problems?

No no no, it was not that simple. This game was a blowout in the first half.

Story:
- AJ starts: he leaves at 8-17 with two FTs coming for Joe, so as a result of an action where is was playing, he actually leaves at 10-17. (-7)
- Law comes and ends the first quarter at 21-31 (-3), and plays the first minute of the 2nd, leaving on Wells FTs, so at 21-34 (-3 added, so -6)
- Then Lue comes for 4'57'': 25-46 (-8)
- AJ until half-time: 31-56 (-4 added, so -11)

- AJ starts the 3rd and leaves at 41-67 (-1 added so -12).
- Team plays "without PG" the next 3 minutes: 47-73
- Law comes with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. End of 3rd=55-88 (-7 added, so -13).
- 4th quarter (garbage time): Law plays, end=89-108 (+14 added, so +1)

Maybe Woody should have more played Joe-Childress-Marvin-Smith-Al... or Law-x-x-x-Horford.

Why ? Because they only played together from 10-17 to 12-19,and from 16-25 to 21-34 but this time it was with both Horford and Zaza, excepting the 9 last seconds from 21-30 to 21-31.
Our fastest PG plays only 1 minute and 21 seconds with our fastest C !!! Anything strange ?

Add this stat: http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/le ... team=Hawks
and you will find it even more stange, seeing Law plays better with Horford at C, or even with Shelden.

killbuckner · Post #29 » by **killbuckner** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:07 pm

I simply don't get why anyone would push for Law to start as long as this team is in playoff contention. He has probably been the worst PG in the league this season who gets significant minutes when you look at the stats. When you look up the numbers the team does far better on offense with other PG's than they do with Law.

If the Hawks were out of playoff contention then hell yes go ahead and see what Law can do. If the Hawks had their first rounder then no problem go ahead and play him- even if they lose a few more games then it just helps their draftpick. But the Hawks are in win now mode and Acie just hasn't played particularly well this season- I just don't at all see why the team should be starting him.

D21 · Post #30 » by **D21** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:24 pm

KB, I don't say he sould start, but why not trying yesterday to play with Law at PG and Horford at C ?

And if they want to win now, they should start thinking to change something, because we have now 3 teams with same Wins (21) just behind.
Last year after 47 games, this team was 18-29 (20-30 after 50 games), and this year 21-26... what an improvement... 3 wins... Almost no injuries, Horford added, and 3 wins added.

killbuckner · Post #31 » by **killbuckner** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:33 pm

D21- I agree with all of that. Absolutely in games that are out of hand then let Law get a ton of minutes. And I have been saying for a long time that I thought the hawks needed to make a trade for a better PG.

tontoz · Post #32 » by **tontoz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:53 pm

I simply don't get why anyone would push for Law to start as long as this team is in playoff contention.

It's probably because the Hawks have lost 9 of their last 13 games and the team does better with Law starting.

JoshB914 · Post #33 » by **JoshB914** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:10 pm

I never said that IV was the reason we got blown out. I simply am pointing out that last night showed that Lue is only one of many holes on this team. And he is our third string PG, so we have bigger fish to fry I think.

People love blaming Zaza and Lue. If our backup center and third string PG were our two main weaknesses I think we'd have a much better record right now...

JoshB914 · Post #34 » by **JoshB914** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:13 pm

D21 wrote:KB, I don't say he sould start, but why not trying yesterday to play with Law at PG and Horford at C ?

And if they want to win now, they should start thinking to change something, because we have now 3 teams with same Wins (21) just behind.
Last year after 47 games, this team was 18-29 (20-30 after 50 games), and this year 21-26... what an improvement... 3 wins... Almost no injuries, Horford added, and 3 wins added.

It's important to note that a lot of the teams around us have played a lot more games. If we can just snag a couple of our extra games we will be sitting pretty. And also within striking distance of the Wiz if they keep this up.

tontoz · Post #35 » by **tontoz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:45 pm

JoshB914 wrote:I never said that IV was the reason we got blown out. I simply am pointing out that last night showed that Lue is only one of many holes on this team. And he is our third string PG, so we have bigger fish to fry I think.

Lue isn't our 3rd string pg. When everyone was healthy at the start of the year Lue was starting.

CWell · Post #36 » by **CWell** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:03 am

tontoz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Lue isn't our 3rd string pg. When everyone was healthy at the start of the year Lue was starting.

no he wasn't,Acie started but the the idiot Woodson gave Lue most of the minutes.

conleyorbust · Post #37 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:13 pm

I have never really been a fan of Lue, even after the Lakers game where everyone was thrilled with his clutch shooting (which was impressive), all I could remember is how incredibly long it took him to get the offense initiated down the stretch.

Still, I don't blame him for it. If we aren't going to commit to a style of play then it doesn't really matter who we play at the point guard... and regardless of which style of play we choose, we don't really have the point guard personnel to be consistently successful anyway.

I would like to see Acie play more, just to see if he can be a player in the league. On the other hand its not necessarilly in Woody's interest to play it. We can look at it from the perspective of the entire organization (even if Acie is gonna play poorly, its probably best to see him play) but Woody knows he probably won't be here next season so he doesn't care what happens to Acie, he didn't pick him.

D21 · Post #38 » by **D21** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:17 pm

D21 wrote:...Maybe Woody should have more played Joe-Childress-Marvin-Smith-Al... or Law-x-x-x-Horford.

Why ? Because they only played together from 10-17 to 12-19,and from 16-25 to 21-34 but this time it was with both Horford and Zaza, excepting the 9 last seconds from 21-30 to 21-31.
Our fastest PG plays only 1 minute and 21 seconds with our fastest C !!! Anything strange ?
...

I continue with Law and Woody.
This DET game, Woodson do the same thing:

Law comes in the 1st, with 3'44'' remaining and 10-19.
He plays in this lineup: Law-Joe-Childress-Smith-Horford only 2 minutes and 30 seconds: 16-21 (so +4 for Law) with 1'15'' left.
And one more time, Woody decides to break this lineup, and puts Law with Joe-Childress-Marvin-Zaza, then both Zaza and Wright until 9'07'' left in the 2nd: 22-37 (so -10 added, total= -6).

Another time, why Woody did that ? why only 2'30 with Law at PG and Horford at C ? Why did he put Zaza and even more both Zaza and Wright on the floor with Law ? And why doing that at the moment DET was playing with some young guys, leading to 16-6 run ?

I know Law is making some mistakes, but Woody is killing him with these lineups.