Time for a chainsaw?

[smabie]

This isn't to discuss Billy Knight's qualities, only Woodson's...

With the Oscars being so recent, I'm kinda in the mood for a Oscar-style prediction...

When Woodson should be fired: Back in November probably, over the All Star Break definitely. Now would be better than nothing else.

When Woodson will be fired: he won't, he just won't have his contract renewed, much like how Terry Stotts left.

[evildallas]

He should have been fired a little over 2 seasons ago when after losing a lead against the Knicks as they drove the ball to hoop again and again in the fourth quarter, he said that "he got caught up in the game and forgot that Josh Smith was on the bench." Josh Smith, his only shot blocker and interior defensive presence, was sitting on the bench as the Knicks caught, passed, and finished off the Hawks by penetrating all the way to hoop for layups. Everytime someone suggests giving Woodson a chance, I am reminded of that game and think that he's already proven he shouldn't be a head coach.

When will he be fired? You're right. He won't. He'll just expire. He took all the losses on his record as the team tried to rebuild the right albeit painful way. He was a good soldier for BK, so he gets the full length of his contract to prove himself.

[LL Cool Scott]

^ All good points. I hope we replace him with an offensive minded coach in the offseason. Or Larry Brown, he's defensive minded - but he's possibly the best basketball coach in the world that's currently available. I also hope we replace our GM with a GM with any sort of mind whatsoever (sorry, I just couldn't help myself).

[conleyorbust]

He should have been fired a little over 2 seasons ago when after losing a lead against the Knicks as they drove the ball to hoop again and again in the fourth quarter, he said that "he got caught up in the game and forgot that Josh Smith was on the bench." Josh Smith, his only shot blocker and interior defensive presence, was sitting on the bench as the Knicks caught, passed, and finished off the Hawks by penetrating all the way to hoop for layups. Everytime someone suggests giving Woodson a chance, I am reminded of that game and think that he's already proven he shouldn't be a head coach.

When will he be fired? You're right. He won't. He'll just expire. He took all the losses on his record as the team tried to rebuild the right albeit painful way. He was a good soldier for BK, so he gets the full length of his contract to prove himself.

My problem isn't with the fact that it happened. As has been noted, the team was pretty weak at that point, would have been hard for anyone to coax much out of them. My problem is that he often exhibits the same sort of negligence two years later. He still doesn't sub based on need, he's very robotic with his player management during a game. Player X has two fouls in the first half, take him out. Doesn't matter if player X is generating all or our offense and his replacement is a filler, Woody has his programming.

Thats another reason why he would be better for a deeper, more experienced team. A team like the Hawks, a lot of dynamic athletes but not much depth or experience, has to be coached with some creativity because its not a standard lineup.

Anyway, like I said, no growth as a tactician. Bad ego manager. Bad talent developer. Bad motivator. What is there to like?

[killbuckner]

COB- I do fully agree with that. That woodson is a conventional coach and was given a very unconventional lineup. Whether that unconventional lineup would have worked with a different coach or whether it was just horribly flawed is in the eye of the beholder. Either way the roster is much stronger with Bibby on the team.

[conleyorbust]

COB- I do fully agree with that. That woodson is a conventional coach and was given a very unconventional lineup. Whether that unconventional lineup would have worked with a different coach or whether it was just horribly flawed is in the eye of the beholder. Either way the roster is much stronger with Bibby on the team.

Don't get me wrong, I have been a proponent of a real pg for a long time now. It is such an important position and it was ignored for too long. I also agree that the lineup was, and to a large extent still is, flawed.

Other problems have little or nothing to do with the players Woody was given to work with. The fact that he has had clashes with his players would be OK if the results of those clashes were development in the players, unfortunately it seems like regression was the result. His hard-assed and conventional attitude would be completely acceptable if it made the guys compete hard every game. Unfortunately they often seem to lose focus... and that doesn't really have anything to do with youth... Bickerstaff was another terrible tactician but when he was there, the 'Cats always fought.

[Rip2137]

Okay. The last REAL point guard to win a NBA championship? Anyone?

I am thinking Jason Williams and before him Isaiah Thomas. That is a LONG time. Alot of scoring guards that are at the point, yeah, but no true point guards.

With the offense that Woodson runs, he needs a defender and a shooter at the point. I will admit, he has not gotten that from any of the players that have been brought here, and none of them really fit the bill coming in except maybe Acie(fit the bill meaning they were supposed to fit this bill). I know, I am not supposed to be knocking BK, but the starting point he brought in was been Speedy(not a shooter, but a good defender).

But I don't think that is enough to justify how horrible of a coach Woodson is. Forget foul trouble, how many times have you watched a guy score our last 6-8 points and get subbed out because it was just his time to get subbed out and the offense automaticall goes to the crapper? How often have you seen any other coach in the NBA call a timeout when HIS TEAM is on a run? I have seen Woodson do it numerous times and wonder what the hell he was doing.

How often have you seen a coach, down 3 with 3 seconds to go put a center, and powerforward in the game istead of his other guards? How often have you seen the us call a timeout for the final play and the other team leaves its worse defender on the court instead of subbing offense/defense? Never? See, woodson does it all the time.

How many times have we watched Childress score 4-6 points in a row because he is being guarded by a point guard and then they NEVER GO BACK TO IT? (this oddly seems to happen everytime they play the HOrnets too...)

How many times does the offense go to Josh Smith on the wing and having to dribble it down to the block instead of just giving him the ball on the block? How often has it been a blow out game and our starters are still playing deep in the 4th on the front in of a back to back? How often has a bench player had a great game and the next 4 games he doesn't play?

EVERY game he makes no adjustments to anything, even though some of the stuff is basketball 101 out there. Back when I played, I was never a incredible X's and O's guy, but I understood simple basketball. If they have a slow Center on our fast center, maybe we should run some pick and roll to take advantage of it. If they are doubling from the top, put in a shooter to make the entry pass and they can't double from there. If they are doubling from the lane, flash a man to the top of the key. If a play doesn't work 3 times, don't run it another 10. Maybe go somewhere else.

Its simple simple stuff. It really really REALLY isn't that hard. If you have a coach that can't do the simple stuff, then he doesn't need to be a coach.

[AU hawksfan]

Woody is just trying to coach the wrong style of basketball with the roster he has. He's been given an athletic roster with young players made to run and he's spending his time preaching defensive ball. We are not built like Detroit. Simply put, we need a coach that matches our roster.

[conleyorbust]

Woody is just trying to coach the wrong style of basketball with the roster he has. He's been given an athletic roster with young players made to run and he's spending his time preaching defensive ball. We are not built like Detroit. Simply put, we need a coach that matches our roster.

Well I enjoy the good defense but we have an athletic enough team that we can play a more uptempo offense without sacrificing the D. I don't even mean fast breaks, the problem before was that in the fourth when we played Lue we couldn't get the offense started with enough time to do anything but take a contested (or Josh Smith) jumper because Lue was so easily pressured. Hopefully we will be able to get the ball into the high post or something in the fourth because we don't have still the great jump shooters to just hope we hit enough to win in the final quarter.

[JoshB914]

I think it's a combo of the last too. I'd give Woody an "F" for his job here and he should probably be gone this summer. However, coaching is indeed very overrated and he put most of this blame on BK.

[Rip2137]

I think you have to put the blame on BK because he hired Mike Woodson. Woodson obviously shared his game plan with BK and he went and got a bunch of guys that don't fit into a half court, grind it out offensive scheme.

However, if you don't have the team that matches your game plan, you don't say "Screw that...i am sticking with it even though there is no way we can win using this method". So once again, blame them both.

But you can't say BK hasn't assembled a talented team. You can say it could definately be more talented than it is, but it is still very talented. Plus, I find it hard to believe that Woody has no say or input on draft picks at all. I just don't buy that.

[JoshB914]

True we do have some talent. But that's hard to screw up with all those first round picks. What did happen was BK completely ignored guys to fill conventional roles- we have NO point guard until Bibby, and have no depth whatsoever (WHY did we never make a run at Kurt Thomas?!).