Should We Be Shopping Bibby This Summer?

[Harry10]

The untouchables should be horford and Smith. Everyone else should be shopped to a degree.

And I think people are missing that Bibby could very well walk away and we get nothing at the end of next season, playoffs or not. If we make the playoffs and he has a great season, he is going to command a pretty nice contract and he might not want to resign in Atlanta.

If you look at shopping a guy like him that is both talented AND a HUGE expiring contract, you could, like someone said, get a damn good point guard and a Big.

I personanlly don't think he's doing anything that couldn't be done by another point if Woodson ran the offense the same. Yes, some of the cross court passes and the pick and roll have been smoother because of his ability, but the biggest change is that they are taking the ball out of Joes hand and spotting him up on other spots on the court. And he is one of the better spot up shooters in the NBA. Joes recent explosion and Horfords for that matter have been a result of both an offensive adjustment and Bibby.

I think we can get a guy that can play and distribute like him. I wouldn't be opposed to TJ Ford actually(I know...injury prone...but at the same time....Bibby....)

that is a really big "if". even though Bibby has been just okay, it is not like he has been lightening it up for the Hawks, or turning the whole organization around like what Cassel did a few years ago with the Clip.

[JoshB914]

The key word in this question is "shop." Rip makes a good point, Bibby will be a solid PG next season with a giganitic expiring contract. That holds MAJOR value with sellers as we saw on Draft Day and at the trade deadline. Like I said, I'm not a proponent of dealing Bibby, but BK would be doing us a disservice by not at least seeing what's out there. That does NOT mean he is on the trade block.

The only guys we absolutely should keep are Horford and Smoove.

And Miami is not trading Wade for JJ/Marvin. Go post that on their board and I bet we get laughed at.

[dms269]

-= original quote snipped =-



About the only player I view as untouchable at this point is Al Horford. Billy Knight should pursue any trades, I just don't see Atlanta being able to acquire proper value for Mike Bibby right now, so it's most likely better off to keep him until the trade deadline next year. If a trade does occur Atlanta should be able to acquire better value compared to that of Shelden Williams. The young man didn't have much hope here and he's most likely going to be a headache for the Kings.

I agree with you. The reason I don't put Smith into that untouchable category is the fact that Horford might be better suited as a 4. I do not want to have Smith playing the 3. He takes too many 3's as is, placing him at a wing position will make it that much easier for him to shoot them.

[Rod700]

I would think you'd at least check to see if someone is willing to give you something for him. I don't mean that you'd unload him, but he shouldn't be by any means untouchable.

HMFFL:

I just don't see Atlanta being able to acquire proper value for Mike Bibby right now, so it's most likely better off to keep him until the trade deadline next year.

RIP:

And I think people are missing that Bibby could very well walk away and we get nothing at the end of next season

Thanks guys. These are exactly the issues I wanted to discuss. I certainly don't think he is untouchable due to the fact we could lose him for nothing in two years, and the huge trade value his expiring contract has this upcoming year. It's about weighing what we can get for him against our chances of resigning him at a more economical cost.

I wanted to gather people's opinions on that before I presented my own and possibly influenced others' answers to some small degree. Personally, I think we have to make that consideration and see what we can get for him to make an accurate decision on the matter. I wouldn't shop him for the sake of wanting to get rid of him, but I would definitely actively seek out offers to establish our options.

[evildallas]

Couple of points, Bibby is a large investment, but he isn't a long term investment. He's a 1 year 14.5M roll of the dice. If he is allowed to walk at the end of the season, it shouldn't be seen as getting nothing for him. He is a hired gun.

As far as trade value, his value is that he expiring next season and allows us to take back a large contract in exchange. Combine that with some young assets and picks and you have what it took to land Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol in trades. The problem is what big dollar stars are going to be on the trading block and are they worth acquiring? I've looked around the league and I don't see much worth going for.

[killbuckner]

Jermaine Oneal is one guy I think would be interesting. But really- whats the point if they have to give up the only adequate PG they have?

[conleyorbust]

Jermaine Oneal is one guy I think would be interesting. But really- whats the point if they have to give up the only adequate PG they have?

I don't like it.

I look at it more like evildallas. Unless there is a team this summer that thinks the absolutely need Bibby and would be willing to give up a high draft pick/great young talent to get him, we can let him play out his time here and reevaluate at the end of next season.

[killbuckner]

Bibby was only worth expiring contracts at the trade deadline and he hasn't done anything to be worth more than that since then. No one is going to give up anything significant for him unless the hawks are taking a much worse contract in return.

[JoshB914]

But expiring contracts are extremely valuable to sellers. He could net a VERY good player at some point.

[killbuckner]

Expiring contracts are worth close to nothing- but the point is that sometimes very good players have negative trade value because of their contracts. The value in an expiring contract is directly correlated to how bad a contract you are willing to take in return. Ignore the Gasol trade- that was just a horrific trade by a bad GM. As much as I don't like BK- he never screwed up as bad as Wallace did. I was one of the few here that applauded BK when he made the SAR and Ratliff trades, but Wallace just completely screwed the franchise with that crap.

[Rod700]

Expiring contracts are worth close to nothing- but the point is that sometimes very good players have negative trade value because of their contracts. The value in an expiring contract is directly correlated to how bad a contract you are willing to take in return.

Somewhat alluding to what Evil Dallas said, Bibby's expiring could be used to help match the salary of a high caliber player in a trade. I guess you could say that would be the value of making large numbers work without trading extra worthwhile players as fillers. Of course, if someone is included in a trade as an expiring contract, other players will need to be included to match the talent of the incoming player as well. Expiring contracts do have some extra value in and of themselves to teams who are rebuilding though and need to clear cap space.

[conleyorbust]

Expiring contracts are worth close to nothing- but the point is that sometimes very good players have negative trade value because of their contracts. The value in an expiring contract is directly correlated to how bad a contract you are willing to take in return. Ignore the Gasol trade- that was just a horrific trade by a bad GM. As much as I don't like BK- he never screwed up as bad as Wallace did. I was one of the few here that applauded BK when he made the SAR and Ratliff trades, but Wallace just completely screwed the franchise with that crap.

First off, Wallace is the GM of an unpopular team in a tiny market that has never shown the potential to be profitable. The owner wants to unload the team. I have absolutely no doubt that this was a pure balance sheet move. Get the least amount of salary back and snag a prospect and some picks along the way. He doesn't have to worry about an extension for Chil/Gordon, doesn't have to put expensive peices around another second tier star to watch the team lose money and be swept in the first round. You understand the market, think about it.

As far as expirings, you are kind of right. However, the KG to Boston deal doesn't happen without Theo Ratliff's expiring contract. Not every deal in the NBA has a perfect precedent. Bibby was had for what amounted to expirings, as was Gasol. Kidd and Shaq commanded more than either but are probably inferior players going to teams where the fit worse... there will always be teams out there that think they have to make a move and we could luck into dealing with one of them... we just probably won't.

[evildallas]

I don't think there is anything out there for us to trade Bibby for. edit - Actually I just of 2 teams and I will add them to the end of this post.

The player I am eyeballing as trade bait is Marvin Williams. He's shown enough that he should have trade value, but really hasn't shown enough to invest long term in. I hate to say this, but I would consider moving him on draft night for a lesser player at the same contract level and a 1st round pick like Memphis did with Battier, sending him for Swift and the #8 pick. For example, I could see Marvin to Charlotte for Matt Carroll and the #9 (that was where they were slotted on nbadraft.net). With the top ten pick I try to get some size to balance the roster since this is a deep C draft. It might even be a shot-blocking only C like Thabeet, but that would be a difference maker. Bibby/JJ is given the whole season as a starting back court with Acie/Carroll/Mario as the backups. I am assuming that we resign Josh and Josh if not long term to at least the 1 year qualifying offer to become UFAs. SF would be Childress/Richardson with PF/C being a Smith/Horford/Thabeet rotation. I would love to acquire a high second or very low first to try to land Dorsey or Taj Gibson as a cheap PF contributor off the bench with us using Smith some at SF. I'm not attached to Solomon or Salim and don't shed a tear with them not making the team. And I would try to use Zaza's expiring deal to possibly bring back a better player with longer deal from a rebuilding team or just a team with a surplus (I'm actually eyeballing Etan Thomas if he returns healthy).

Maybe Marvin blows up on another team, but I suspect he'll never be more than decent F. He doesn't seem to have the fire that makes me think he'll be a superstar. It might also help him to get to a team that didn't pass on Paul and Williams to take him. Carroll isn't great, but can stretch a D if used right. The key is that rookie contract C which can provide shot blocking in the middle which helps our perimeter D on a budget. I think the final product is more palatable than the Bibby shopping scenarios.

There are 2 Bibby shopping scenarios that I can see.

#1 Milwaukee rebuilds. This is actually 2 possible deals.
1 is Redd for Bibby and future pick. We move JJ to the 3 and try to acquire a PG in trade or free agency. The other possible move with Milwaukee would be Bibby for Mo Williams and Desmond Mason to clear cap for Milwaukee. They would probably want to move Gadzuric over Mason, but damn that's a bad contract so let's not think about that right now. We get a young, faster PG with a longer deal. Milwaukee gets cap flexibility at the end of the year.

#2 Toronto is forced to pay a lot to Calderon and decides to move TJ Ford. Bibby could be shipped for TJ Ford and Rasho Nesterovic. Toronto maintains PG depth for 2008-2009, but gains flexibility to finish reshaping the lineup by moving the 3yr/25M deal that Ford has. Requires us to take a chance on Ford's health.

There's nothing stopping us from making the Redd-Bibby deal and a Marvin deal for a player and a pick. Hmmm, I wonder if we could get a reasonable PG and a pick high enough to get Thabeet or Hibbert for Marvin.

[conleyorbust]

Toronto does look like a possibility. I think we will have to see if the price for Jose goes up high enough that they will want to get rid of TJ or if TJ absolutely blows up in the playofss. The good thing is that TJ doesn't look nearly as comfortable as a backup. Of course gambling on a player with his propensity for injuries might not be a great idea.

I think we should see if we can move Marv and Chil. They both have some value and we need guys that can fit in well with the team we are trying to build. I've always said you don't move guys that can be stars to improve "fit" but neither of those guys is going to be a star... at least not here.