Our problems.

[conleyorbust]

You are missing the point Rip. All those teams HAVE guys that can be used as set shooters coming off the bench options that they use 20/30 minutes a game. Guys like Korver, Finley, Barry, Barbosa, House, Posey, Walton, Vujacic etc. all take a few 3 pointers a game.

Add to that the consistency out of the midrange jumpshots from guys like Hill, Boozer, Amare, KG...

Even Rondo has a decent midrange shot now.

We have one guy who can consistently knock down jumpers on the entire team. Bibby is inconsistent and when that shot isn't falling we are an incredibly easy team to D up. When Marv's midrange game is working it makes everything flow better, unfortunately you have to be really consistent with a 2 pointer for it to have the same effect as a 3. Marv isn't as consistent with that shot as a lot of guys. Other than that, no one hits jumpers. Not Smith, Horford, Law, Zaza, or Childress.

[Rip2137]

I think that you are not drawing the connection between CONSISTANTLY knocking down jumpers and CONSISTANTLY getting minutes.

Salim and Jeremy Richardson have just as much shooting talent as that list you put up there. And if you check out their game logs, all of them have games where they put up a 0-something and still got their minutes that night and the next. You know why? Their coachs aren't morons and understand that you will need that.

Bibby(in theory), Joe, Salim and Richardson are all shooter. Because we don't use them doesn't mean we should start wanting a guy to play away from his strengths(that he doesn't play to enough as it is) to fill a void that doesn't have to be there.

Marvs midrange shot disappeared when his freethrow attempts went down(the freethrows were giving him his rhythm) and his freethrow attempts went down when A: Joe showed up for the season in February and B: We traded for Bibby. His touches went down dramatically, so did his production. Simple as that.

For three months he was ridiculously accurate with that midrange jumper and was getting the freethrow line over 6 times a game. What we needed was Joe to play like a max player and not like early season Kevin Durant. That was the problem. Not Marvin or anyone else not taking threes.

[JoshB914]

Rip you can't compare J-Rich and Salim to role players on championship teams like this. They are nowhere close to the Barry's, Posey's, and Korvers.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

So the reason why we are the 8th seed and not the 1st seed is becasue Marvin doesn't take threes? It's not that Smith kills us with mid range shots, or Zaza, or Bibby, or Joe looking lost some games, or our coach, or how we don't even run plays for Marvin, or how our bench is fulled with D-league players, or how we still don't have a passing pg.

Marvin is not killing this team.

[JoshB914]

There are a lot of reasons we are the eighth seed. But I still consider us a .500 team (in the East) because of how we played after the All Star break.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

Well I think Marvin isn't a reason.

Everyone, he can't be a bust if the coaches put him in that situation.

Coming out as a rookie, he HAD to sit behind Harrington, because the coaches thought Harrington was the man. Then when he got his chance to become starter, they made Smith, JJ, and even Lue options above him. Now Bibby, JJ, Smith, Horford, and sometimes Chill is looked at on offense more than him, and he still puts up 2nd or 3rd option numbers.

Give him a chance to play and be an option, before calling him a bust.

[killbuckner]

Give him a chance to play and be an option, before calling him a bust.

Holy god. He has averaged 34 minutes a game the past 2 seasons. I can't believe you are even trying to say this.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

^ Not as in playing time, I mean give him the ball and let him play. Go rewatch a game and see they hardly pass it to him, even on fast breaks. Holy god.

[killbuckner]

he averages 11 shots per game!!

[LHughes/JSmooth]

^ And how much does he make compared to our other guys? Doesn't mean he has to make all of them not to be a bust. Kobe shoots like 40 a game and only makes like 18, is that a bust?

[JoshB914]

Come on, LHughes. You can't compare Kobe to Marvin. Kobe takes a lot of shots because he makes them.

Marvin was okay this year. We wanted more from our #2 pick in his third season.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

^ LOL. No I'm not. I am saying why is taking 11 shots being a bust, when Kobe takes 40?

[JoshB914]

He was just saying that Marvin does shoot the ball plenty, so clearly he does get opportunities in the offense.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

^ But not enough to say he is a bust. 11 shots per game and average about 15 points a game seem good to me, if you look at other players averages.

[killbuckner]

THere is an official definition of "bust" now. Thats when a first round pick doesn't have their third or 4th year TO declined or the team refuses to make the QO for them to hold their RFA rights. By that definition then Marvin isn't a bust.

That doesn't change the fact that he was a lousy pick. It also doesn't change the fact that the Hawks very well might be better off trading him now.

[LHughes/JSmooth]

^ So is that the reason? Seeing CP3 in the playoffs just burst your guys bubbles? Lousy pick for a lousy team.

[parson]

It is stupid to trade Marvin just to trade him. Now, if you've got a good big man in your sights, fire away. Otherwise, what's the reasoning?

Sounds as if some of us are so tired of arguing about him we'd like to chuck it all away, just for the quiet.

Think we're laughed at for not drafting CP? Just try to imagine the ridicule we'd get if we had the player the scouts called the best talent in the draft and we gave him away, only to watch him bloom somewhere else. Make no mistake, any trade involving Marvelous would be a minor one: i.e., giving him away. No way we get the talent back to match his potential.