Trade Idea: Marv to Cleveland

[conleyorbust]

I don't think gurpilo watches basketball.

[gurpilo]

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You don't believe it either. Al for the Smith/Horford combo to be better than the one you just thought of, Al horford needs to average 4 more points and 2 more rebounds. Thats it. And you gave Biedrins 4 more minutes a game to do it in.

Bottomline, Smith is a better player than Biedrins. All the he does better is rebound. Smith is a better scorer, defender, post defender, playmaker, shot blocker, perimeter defender, and can hit a free throw every now and then. You don't trade a allstar caliber, 6'9" 22 year old PF for a 6'11 PF that happens to play Center in Nelly ball.

Ok, if you think a 0,45% FG PF would lead us to a title fine by me. However I

[JoshB914]

When I read that Biedrins instead of Smoove would add to our intimidation of other team I disregarded everything I read in that post.

[Rip2137]

You aren't basing your comments on anything? How will the team have better intimidation by getting rid of the second best shot blocker in the NBA?
How would we get better on defense by adding a guy that isn't as good defensively? Beidrins post defense is not good. He gets pushed around by Centers because he is undersized. He is a PF.

Yes there is a reason the Suns traded Marion for Shaq. Marion was about to opt out and was whining about wanting to get traded. ANd how did that work out by the way? They traded a better defender in Marion for a worse defender in Shaq and the team defense got worse because there was no one to show on the pick and roll. Thats not helping your point. At all. I repeat, the Suns defense got WORSE because they traded for Shaq and got rid of the superior defender.

So your point is that was should trade Josh Smith because he doesn't dominate games (ignoring the countless games he dominated this year) for Andris Biedrins who...what? Dominates games?

And what does propsoing a trade on another board for big time PF's have to do with anything. YOUR point was that Josh Smith will never be a star PF because he doesn't do certain things that the guys you listed as star PF's don't do.


Dude, you said a YOUNG KENYON MARTIN was a star PF in the NBA. that right there kills your entire argument. How can you POSSIBLY say that Josh Smith will never be a star PF but Kenyon was, when Kenyons best season in the NBA was 16 points, 9.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks while shooting 48 percent from the field.

Josh Smith just averaged 17 points, 8.2 rebounds, 2.8 blocks on 45% shooting (around 48 percent after the first month of the season).

Please, justify THAT and then we maybe can continue this discussion.

Josh is a better scorer on the block, off the dribble than Kenyon ever was, he is a better defender than Kenyon ever was, he is a better shot blocker, and kenyon was a SLIGHTLY better rebounder.
Oh, by the way, Kenyon Martin was 26 years old when he put up his best numbers. Josh is 22.

this is nothing about love for Josh Smith, its about you making a bad arguement that isn't based on what actually happens on the court.

[conleyorbust]

Actually, if you take free throws into account Smith had the same efficiency as KMart did in his best season.

[gurpilo]

You aren't basing your comments on anything? How will the team have better intimidation by getting rid of the second best shot blocker in the NBA?
How would we get better on defense by adding a guy that isn't as good defensively? Beidrins post defense is not good. He gets pushed around by Centers because he is undersized. He is a PF.

Yes there is a reason the Suns traded Marion for Shaq. Marion was about to opt out and was whining about wanting to get traded. ANd how did that work out by the way? They traded a better defender in Marion for a worse defender in Shaq and the team defense got worse because there was no one to show on the pick and roll. Thats not helping your point. At all. I repeat, the Suns defense got WORSE because they traded for Shaq and got rid of the superior defender.

So your point is that was should trade Josh Smith because he doesn't dominate games (ignoring the countless games he dominated this year) for Andris Biedrins who...what? Dominates games?

And what does propsoing a trade on another board for big time PF's have to do with anything. YOUR point was that Josh Smith will never be a star PF because he doesn't do certain things that the guys you listed as star PF's don't do.


Dude, you said a YOUNG KENYON MARTIN was a star PF in the NBA. that right there kills your entire argument. How can you POSSIBLY say that Josh Smith will never be a star PF but Kenyon was, when Kenyons best season in the NBA was 16 points, 9.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks while shooting 48 percent from the field.

Josh Smith just averaged 17 points, 8.2 rebounds, 2.8 blocks on 45% shooting (around 48 percent after the first month of the season).

Please, justify THAT and then we maybe can continue this discussion.

Josh is a better scorer on the block, off the dribble than Kenyon ever was, he is a better defender than Kenyon ever was, he is a better shot blocker, and kenyon was a SLIGHTLY better rebounder.
Oh, by the way, Kenyon Martin was 26 years old when he put up his best numbers. Josh is 22.

this is nothing about love for Josh Smith, its about you making a bad arguement that isn't based on what actually happens on the court.

I

[conleyorbust]

gurpilo, just curious: why do you think Smith is not going to improve any more but Marv, or even Horford are? Smith is the same age as them. He has shown more improvement in his game than Marv. He is far more athletic and still has room to grow AND has shown that he will put in the hours to improve.

Also, when you say he "is not the type you win titles with", what do you mean? If you mean he isn't Shaq, Tim Duncan, or Michael Jordan, than you are completely correct - but no one else on our team is and we aren't acquiring that caliber player unless we unload our entire roster (even then we probably wouldn't pull one).

What tools does Al have that would allow him to be "dominant" that Smith doesn't have?

I guess my point is that people seem to think that teams become better when the roster looks "balanced" but the only team to win a title without a superduper star were the Bad Boys and 04' Pistons, none of whom had what you'd call a "traditional" frontcourt.

Good teams win because they have talent. Smith has as much upside as any player in the league, thats not Atlanta fans talking, thats everyone. Our best chance to be REALLY good is if he can take his game to the next level. Now you might think his bball IQ will never come around and that is a fair concern, but to say he doesn't have the tools makes me think you haven't been watching the Atlanta Hawks this season. He has a fairly advanced post game, he can get to the line against superior defenders, and he is one of the most useful and versatile defensive forces in the league.

I just don't see how saying "he is a 3-4 playing PF, who I think will never be a dominant player and is not the type of player that wins titles." makes sense when you are talking about a 6'9 240 pounder... thats basically prototype size for a PF.

[Rip2137]

[quote="gurpilo"][/quote]

thats alot of ignoring a post that you just did.

Yes, I understand what your point was, but everything you stated to support your point was wrong.

And my point remains that you keep saying he will never be a star PF...fine, but you are not showing why you don't think so. EVERY aspect of his game says star. You gave an example of a guy that YOU said was a star PF, and Josh Smith at 22 had a arguably better season than his BEST season(when he was 26).

I understand difference of opinion, but your argument is pretty weak and based on pretty much a bunch of stuff that isn't true. And its just silly for you to suggest trading a guy because he isn't a star in your eyes for a guy that is even further from being a star.

HOW does that make the team better?

[L&H_05]

We have a SF, and he's not that bad..

Marvin makes zero sense to the Cavs..

[gurpilo]

gurpilo, just curious: why do you think Smith is not going to improve any more but Marv, or even Horford are? Smith is the same age as them. He has shown more improvement in his game than Marv. He is far more athletic and still has room to grow AND has shown that he will put in the hours to improve.

Also, when you say he "is not the type you win titles with", what do you mean? If you mean he isn't Shaq, Tim Duncan, or Michael Jordan, than you are completely correct - but no one else on our team is and we aren't acquiring that caliber player unless we unload our entire roster (even then we probably wouldn't pull one).

What tools does Al have that would allow him to be "dominant" that Smith doesn't have?

I guess my point is that people seem to think that teams become better when the roster looks "balanced" but the only team to win a title without a superduper star were the Bad Boys and 04' Pistons, none of whom had what you'd call a "traditional" frontcourt.

Good teams win because they have talent. Smith has as much upside as any player in the league, thats not Atlanta fans talking, thats everyone. Our best chance to be REALLY good is if he can take his game to the next level. Now you might think his bball IQ will never come around and that is a fair concern, but to say he doesn't have the tools makes me think you haven't been watching the Atlanta Hawks this season. He has a fairly advanced post game, he can get to the line against superior defenders, and he is one of the most useful and versatile defensive forces in the league.

I just don't see how saying "he is a 3-4 playing PF, who I think will never be a dominant player and is not the type of player that wins titles." makes sense when you are talking about a 6'9 240 pounder... thats basically prototype size for a PF.

So basically which is the improvement Smith has shown this season? 0,8 ppg on his contract year? If he is not a star PF now what makes you think he will become one now he is going to sign his big contract. Why his BBall IQ is still a concern? I agree athleticism is important but so important? Have you really seen any post moves? Being the 2nd shot blocker how cannot be considered even on the 2nd best defensive team?.

I think his blocks lead to many people to believe he is an awesome defender but as I have said he allows the move to get the block, that

[betta1]

gurpilo, just curious: why do you think Smith is not going to improve any more but Marv, or even Horford are? Smith is the same age as them. He has shown more improvement in his game than Marv. He is far more athletic and still has room to grow AND has shown that he will put in the hours to improve.

Also, when you say he "is not the type you win titles with", what do you mean? If you mean he isn't Shaq, Tim Duncan, or Michael Jordan, than you are completely correct - but no one else on our team is and we aren't acquiring that caliber player unless we unload our entire roster (even then we probably wouldn't pull one).

What tools does Al have that would allow him to be "dominant" that Smith doesn't have?

I guess my point is that people seem to think that teams become better when the roster looks "balanced" but the only team to win a title without a superduper star were the Bad Boys and 04' Pistons, none of whom had what you'd call a "traditional" frontcourt.

Good teams win because they have talent. Smith has as much upside as any player in the league, thats not Atlanta fans talking, thats everyone. Our best chance to be REALLY good is if he can take his game to the next level. Now you might think his bball IQ will never come around and that is a fair concern, but to say he doesn't have the tools makes me think you haven't been watching the Atlanta Hawks this season. He has a fairly advanced post game, he can get to the line against superior defenders, and he is one of the most useful and versatile defensive forces in the league.

I just don't see how saying "he is a 3-4 playing PF, who I think will never be a dominant player and is not the type of player that wins titles." makes sense when you are talking about a 6'9 240 pounder... thats basically prototype size for a PF.

So basically which is the improvement Smith has shown this season? 0,8 ppg on his contract year? If he is not a star PF now what makes you think he will become one now he is going to sign his big contract. Why his BBall IQ is still a concern? I agree athleticism is important but so important? Have you really seen any post moves? Being the 2nd shot blocker how cannot be considered even on the 2nd best defensive team?.

I think his blocks lead to many people to believe he is an awesome defender but as I have said he allows the move to get the block, that

[gurpilo]

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There he is!

Ahead of Jefferson, Aldridge, West, Okafor, Odom and Jamison, sorry I don

[conleyorbust]

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Ahead of Jefferson, Aldridge, West, Okafor, Odom and Jamison, sorry I don

[Rip2137]

How possibly can you rank Aldridge ahead of him. Or Okafor for that matter.

[raleigh]

We have a SF, and he's not that bad..

Marvin makes zero sense to the Cavs..

It's a wonder that has gone unnoticed so far.

[HoopsGuru25]

How possibly can you rank Aldridge ahead of him. Or Okafor for that matter.

I've always wondered why people considered Aldridge better or even to Smith. They are about even offensively and Smith is a much better defender. Smith is much rawer as a scorer but still scores the same number of points with a worse shot selection.

[conleyorbust]

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I've always wondered why people considered Aldridge better or even to Smith. They are about even offensively and Smith is a much better defender. Smith is much rawer as a scorer but still scores the same number of points with a worse shot selection.

LMA doesn't even have an advantage in TS%.

[positivetension]

We have a SF, and he's not that bad..

Marvin makes zero sense to the Cavs..

Yeah but since you're getting him for dirt cheap, you can just ship him off somewhere for a useful player.

[Rip2137]

And Wally Z is a small forward and still starting for them. Despite his sometimey shooting, I honestly think that the team would be better with Marvin....

...

Honestly, i think the team would be ALOT better with Josh Childress, seeing as you have a playmaker in Lebron and a guy that just knows how to get open around the basket and finish like Childress.