New Article-Hawks Sign Woodson to 2-Year Extension

[pja123]

http://hawks.realgm.com/articles/578/20 ... awks_nest/

[cavsfan_osiris]

Wow, I am not a fan of the job Woodson has done in Atlanta. He has severely underachieved.

I haven't followed the Woodson saga closely, did the Hawks performance taking Boston to 7 games play a significant role in this decision?

[evildallas]

The ownership group seemed to absolve him of any blame in underachieving and yes I believe they were blinded by the packed houses and 7 game series. I don't feel they evaluated the full body of his coaching work.

[joeshmoe]

How do you all evaluate his coaching in the Boston series? Did we win on pure emotion or was it actually a good coaching job?

[Rod700]

I take it that no one has posted on this thread because it is a given that we are all completely disappointed in this move. There's really no discussion, it's just a given. Can we take this thread down? It depresses me everytime I see it.

[joeshmoe]

I'm not disappointed in the move. Of course, I wouldn't have been too disappointment if he got fired either. But there is a strong argument for signing the extension. It's a two pronged argument. First, he was not provided with a solid point guard, which is necessary to win, until Bibby. Once we had Bibby we clinched the playoffs and took Boston to seven games. Second, we overachieved in a seven game seiries, where coaching preparations and adjustments play a greater role.

Now, I will concede, I did not watch the series critically. And I for one can not comment on how much credit Woodson deserves for our performance. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt since he was missing an integral part of a successful team, and after he received it we exceeded everyones expectations in the playoffs.

I would be curious to hear some of your critiques of his coaching performance against Boston.

Oh, and by the way, I am glad that the contract is only two years. And, I think we have to show a lot of improvement for him to deserve another extension. Hopefully he will get some more help from management; i.e. a shooter would be nice.

[tsherkin]

At least it's only a 2-year extension... it could be worse. The Raps locked Sam Mitchell up for a 3-year deal after that ridiculous COY he "won" for our outstanding 47-win season while the Mavericks, Spurs, Lakers, Jazz, etc all did better. Score one for management being blinded by immediate and simple results more to do with roster moves than coaching...

Meantime, as long as you retain your basic roster pieces, you're looking at another shot at the playoffs. If Smith continues to mature as a player (providing he's re-signed, of course), then Atlanta can continue to compete for a postseason berth and be entertaining at the same time. Another year, more chances for Acie Law to improve, etc.

I know that Woodson is not, in my mind, a very good coach but having said that, how many other options are there? You could have taken a flier on someone like Elston Turner (Rockets assistant), Tyrone Corbin (Jazz assistant), Mike Budenholzer (Spurs assistant) or someone like Patrick Ewing (who really wants a head coaching job) but there aren't really a lot of proven coaches out there besides Paul Silas... though he's awesome.

I guess there were enough options but it's difficult to fire a coach or not extend him after the way the team performed, right?

[NDaATL]

^ Avery Johnson, Fratello, Collins, D'Antoni was available, Larry Brown was available, Silas. Many more that we were discussing at the time but those are just the only ones I can think of right now. We didn't even ATTEMPT to interview or go after anyone else.

[lunarblues]

of all those, only johnson was availble to the hawks and after what happened to him in dallas i don't think the ASG would want to touch him. this was a move for stability. we needed to show that we can keep something going long-term. i actuall liked the move, now that he actually has expectations, i would like to see how he handles them.

[JoshB914]

ASG isn't going to pay a proven HC. The only time I see them doing that is if they think we have a legit chance to win a title.

TSherkin listed what would have been the group we were hiring from. After seeing Charlotte, Milwaukee, and Sacramento set back their franchises because of terrible hires from those ranks, I'm glad we didn't take that risk.

[tsherkin]

^ Avery Johnson, Fratello, Collins, D'Antoni was available, Larry Brown was available, Silas. Many more that we were discussing at the time but those are just the only ones I can think of right now. We didn't even ATTEMPT to interview or go after anyone else.

Fratello has coached the Hawks before and, more recently, coached Memphis. We know what you get from him: slow-it-down grinder ball that does a poor job of exploiting transition opportunities. He wouldn't do well with the pieces on this roster.

D'Antoni was not available to Atlanta. Collins is worse than Fratello; brilliant analyst, mediocre coach. Avery Johnson... meh. Not impressed with him. Not bad, or anything, but again, grinder ball, not transition basketball.

Larry Brown was not available to Atlanta either. He, like D'Antoni, was only going somewhere he wanted to be (and in Brown's case, if they shelled out the big bucks).

Silas was a thought but is another slow-it-down coach. The fastest he ever played, that I can recall, was his first year with Lebron when the Cavs were 12th in the league in pace. With Baron Davis and the Hornets, they were annually around 20-22nd and sometimes lower. Oh, he got 11th in the league in pace one year (his first full season).

Do you really want to slow the team down THAT much with athletes such as those on the Hawks' roster? That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially lacking a significant post scorer.

[NDaATL]

Fratello has coached the Hawks before and, more recently, coached Memphis. We know what you get from him: slow-it-down grinder ball that does a poor job of exploiting transition opportunities. He wouldn't do well with the pieces on this roster.

D'Antoni was not available to Atlanta. Collins is worse than Fratello; brilliant analyst, mediocre coach. Avery Johnson... meh. Not impressed with him. Not bad, or anything, but again, grinder ball, not transition basketball.

Larry Brown was not available to Atlanta either. He, like D'Antoni, was only going somewhere he wanted to be (and in Brown's case, if they shelled out the big bucks).

Silas was a thought but is another slow-it-down coach. The fastest he ever played, that I can recall, was his first year with Lebron when the Cavs were 12th in the league in pace. With Baron Davis and the Hornets, they were annually around 20-22nd and sometimes lower. Oh, he got 11th in the league in pace one year (his first full season).

Do you really want to slow the team down THAT much with athletes such as those on the Hawks' roster? That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially lacking a significant post scorer.

Woodson is a slow it down coach himself. Yeah, we had a good pace THIS season, but that was due to Smith running the one man break more than anything, and the addition of Bibby. Prior to that, Woodson would always incessantly promise to play a more uptempo style to better suit our players to no avail.

We don't know that D'Antoni and Brown weren't available to Atlanta. The ASG didn't even attempt to go after them, they didn't interview or contact ANYONE. They rode Woodson's jock for 4 years and failed to address anything he did wrong. In the eyes of the ASG, Woodson is a sacred cow for some unknown reason to anyone but the ASG.

Even if you aren't impressed with Avery (I am) or Collins, both are easily better than Woodson IMO, you could probably admit that. And, some of those teams rosters had to do with those other coaches playing a slow down style. Not all, but some. I'd take any over Woodson who is just a flat out terrible coach.

Regardless, the thing that irks fans the most is that they didn't even interview another coach. Even if in the eyes of fans he was a mediocre coach, you at LEAST explore other options. The ASG didn't. That's what really irritates me.

[tsherkin]

Woodson is a slow it down coach himself. Yeah, we had a good pace THIS season, but that was due to Smith running the one man break more than anything, and the addition of Bibby. Prior to that, Woodson would always incessantly promise to play a more uptempo style to better suit our players to no avail.

Sure, but the point is the pieces are there and they ran. Fratello slowed teams down even with Dominique Wilkins on the floor.

And of course, Woodson sucks and has been actively sabotaging Atlanta's chances whether he sees it or not. Playing at a slow pace with this team is like playing a 5-out alignment with Shaq on your roster. But you knew he sucks, my point is that slow-it-down isn't something that is a positive. Nothing about Woodson is positive for Atlanta.

We don't know that D'Antoni and Brown weren't available to Atlanta. The ASG didn't even attempt to go after them, they didn't interview or contact ANYONE. They rode Woodson's jock for 4 years and failed to address anything he did wrong. In the eyes of the ASG, Woodson is a sacred cow for some unknown reason to anyone but the ASG.

Both New York and Charlotte held personal meaning to the two coaches who eventually signed there... and can you honestly tell me Atlanta would want to shell out Brown's salary?

More to the point, why would the coaches want to come to Atlanta? I don't want to be disrespectful here, but their FAs were unresolved and seemed interested in dragging things out (ultimately with Childress leaving the NBA to get away and Smith as-yet unresolved), and a FO that's had all kinds of bickering issues of late. What's appealing about that?

More to the point, what made D'Antoni choose New York over that? Personal interest in the city.

Brown's interest in Charlotte is well-documented and unsurprising.

you aren't impressed with Avery (I am)

Avery, I'm up-and-down with, I don't respect his playoff coaching very much and that's a big problem and again, I don't respect his particular style of coaching with regards to the Hawks' roster.

or Collins, both are easily better than Woodson IMO, you could probably admit that.

Avery's way better, sure. He actually deserved his COY and has done wonderful things in Dallas. He makes Mike Woodson look like the Rob Babcock of coaching (err...).

But he also doesn't fit the team's players; grinder ball won't work with the Hawks. The Mavs had better isolation scorers and a more physical team, even with Dirk on the floor. Atlanta isn't designed for that kind of play, they're clearly an athletic up-tempo shooting squad. If they started working the Bibby/Horford sidescreen more, maybe, but remember that Dallas had more punch and that's why Johnson succeeded... until eventually he burned out the team and Carlisle took over.

Regardless, the thing that irks fans the most is that they didn't even interview another coach. Even if in the eyes of fans he was a mediocre coach, you at LEAST explore other options. The ASG didn't. That's what really irritates me.

I wholeheartedly concur; Atlanta deserves better. MUCH better than their current FO and head coach.

[NDaATL]

But you knew he sucks, my point is that slow-it-down isn't something that is a positive. Nothing about Woodson is positive for Atlanta.

I knew that's what you meant. My point was that even if EVERY coach available was a slow it down coach, Woodson is the last one that I would take.

Both New York and Charlotte held personal meaning to the two coaches who eventually signed there... and can you honestly tell me Atlanta would want to shell out Brown's salary?

More to the point, why would the coaches want to come to Atlanta? I don't want to be disrespectful here, but their FAs were unresolved and seemed interested in dragging things out (ultimately with Childress leaving the NBA to get away and Smith as-yet unresolved), and a FO that's had all kinds of bickering issues of late. What's appealing about that?

New York and Charlotte were better destinations? Obviously D'Antoni may have liked NYC, but the Hawks roster would fit his style perfectly. We didn't even ATTEMPT to contact him, there is no way to be positive he wouldn't have been interested in this job. I'm not saying it was likely, but when you don't contact someone you eliminate all possibilities. Now he is with the Knicks, which will almost assuredly limit his reputation around the league, unless the new GM makes some huge roster turnarounds. I don't see that happening, as essentially their entire roster is undesirable for all other NBA teams.

True, I don't see the Hawks shelling out big money for Larry Brown. Obviously they run like the roadrunner from Coyote when it comes to paying up on an upgrade, rather choosing to stick to the same sap that has hindered us for 4 years. They'd rather just defend his deficiencies and pretend he doesn't have faults in his coaching to save money and most casual fans will buy it.

But he also doesn't fit the team's players; grinder ball won't work with the Hawks. The Mavs had better isolation scorers and a more physical team, even with Dirk on the floor. Atlanta isn't designed for that kind of play, they're clearly an athletic up-tempo shooting squad. If they started working the Bibby/Horford sidescreen more, maybe, but remember that Dallas had more punch and that's why Johnson succeeded... until eventually he burned out the team and Carlisle took over.

Avery only coached one team in his entire coaching tenure. How do we know that he isn't able to adjust when having a more uptempo team? The Mavs basically had to play slow it down ball, except for Harris whom they recently rid themselves of.

Regardless, this doesn't even matter IMO. I'll take Avery, Collins, Silas, or Fratello as a slow it down coach over Woodson the slow it down coach.

I wholeheartedly concur; Atlanta deserves better. MUCH better than their current FO and head coach.

It really is heartbreaking to be a fan of this team. It's like being raised in poverty, you'll toughen up in the end. Being a Hawks fan sucks, we really need Turner or Blank to take over this team.

[HoopsGuru25]

Woodson is a defensive oriented coach and the Hawks have sucked on defense over the last 4 years. I'm not saying it's definitely his fault but the fact is that it would be hard to find someone who could get less results out of this team than Woodson. We've had the worst record in the NBA in the last 4 years...it's amazing that Woodson got an extension when you consider how many coaches get fired after only one or two years.

[tsherkin]

I knew that's what you meant. My point was that even if EVERY coach available was a slow it down coach, Woodson is the last one that I would take.

Sure, that makes sense.

[quoteNew York and Charlotte were better destinations? Obviously D'Antoni may have liked NYC, but the Hawks roster would fit his style perfectly. We didn't even ATTEMPT to contact him, there is no way to be positive he wouldn't have been interested in this job. I'm not saying it was likely, but when you don't contact someone you eliminate all possibilities. Now he is with the Knicks, which will almost assuredly limit his reputation around the league, unless the new GM makes some huge roster turnarounds. I don't see that happening, as essentially their entire roster is undesirable for all other NBA teams.[/quote]

Not that they were better fits but that they were more desirable locations. Brown has roots in Charlotte for various reasons and D'Antoni wanted to go to New York. The appeal of the roster is there for the Hawks, sure, but not so much the desire for the locale (no offense; I certainly wouldn't give a damn, lol). Not having attempted contact is a problem, true, but the material out there suggests that those two each decided on those particular locations for a reason.

Donnie Walsh should not be underestimated, though; he did a fine job pre-Bird's arrival in the FO.

True, I don't see the Hawks shelling out big money for Larry Brown. Obviously they run like the roadrunner from Coyote when it comes to paying up on an upgrade, rather choosing to stick to the same sap that has hindered us for 4 years. They'd rather just defend his deficiencies and pretend he doesn't have faults in his coaching to save money and most casual fans will buy it.

And that's terrible; I feel for you, I had to deal with the Toronto FO until Colangelo came around. Our ownership group remains the same but at least we have Colangelo.

Avery only coached one team in his entire coaching tenure. How do we know that he isn't able to adjust when having a more uptempo team? The Mavs basically had to play slow it down ball, except for Harris whom they recently rid themselves of.

I'd be inclined to accept that reasoning if he hadn't spent the vast majority of his career playing for the slower power-post Spurs and interning under Gregg Popovich for the final half-decade plus of his career. It's possible, but he was let go precisely because he was RESISTING the move towards a faster pace with the Mavericks.

Regardless, this doesn't even matter IMO. I'll take Avery, Collins, Silas, or Fratello as a slow it down coach over Woodson the slow it down coach.

Sensible, I agree.

It really is heartbreaking to be a fan of this team. It's like being raised in poverty, you'll toughen up in the end. Being a Hawks fan sucks, we really need Turner or Blank to take over this team.

It's always a shame when the FO or some similar non-player factor is limiting a team; the NBA thrives on competition; I mean, the West was so intense last year, it was as good as I've seen in ages from any conference. A competitive Atlanta team is good for the league, I am mildly surprised there hasn't been NBA intervention already, especially since Atlanta has a fairly storied history with Pettit and 'Nique in their respective eras and even the Mutombo era. Good teams, good competition, good times...

Good luck, too.