Our Leader should say something

KJizzle · Post #1 » by **KJizzle** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:49 am

JJ should say something! he tells the media we need J Smooth

he should pull a Kobe and say h's out if J-smooth isn't here

you never know it might just work.

JoshB914 · Post #2 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:27 pm

Unfortunately, JJ is not a leader.

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:52 pm

JJ is best player, but the most likely to be the team's vocal leader is Al Horford or ironically Josh Smith. Even if it was JJ I don't like players getting involved in other players negotiations publicly. If he feels that strongly he can make his feelings known to the team privately. You make statements in the media like that and what's going to be expected when Marvin and Bibby are negotiating.

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #4 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:09 pm

^i think acie will eventually be the leader of this team

CWell · Post #5 » by **CWell** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:39 pm

BMF Jet Jaguar wrote:^i think acie will eventually be the leader of this team

me too and I think Joe should go to the owners privately and tell them stop screwing us over.

tbhawksfan · Post #6 » by **tbhawksfan** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:57 pm

Last thing he said was; "keep Woodson".

He may have lost all credibility. ; )

conleyorbust · Post #7 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:58 pm

evildallas wrote:JJ is best player, but the most likely to be the team's vocal leader is Al Horford or ironically Josh Smith. Even if it was JJ I don't like players getting involved in other players negotiations publicly. If he feels that strongly he can make his feelings known to the team privately. You make statements in the media like that and what's going to be expected when Marvin and Bibby are negotiating.

Even if Joe was the "leader" of the team, I wouldn't expect him to come out and say something. That generally doesn't work out well in these types of situations. He isn't a Tim Duncan type of player where he has had a great and sustained impact on the team, he is simply, the best player.

ATLfan · Post #8 » by **ATLfan** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:07 pm

JoshB914 wrote:Unfortunately, JJ is not a leader.

Yep

HoopsGuru25 · Post #9 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:47 pm

LOL...Since when is demanding a trade PUBLICALLY if "so and so" doesn't happen being a sign of leadership. That would actually help validate the thought around the league that no one wants to play for the Hawks.

He already stated that we needed to bring both Joshes back. That's all he had to say. I'm not sure how his leadership abilities(or Law or Horfords according to this thread)have anything to do with what's going on right now.

reazun · Post #10 » by **reazun** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 pm

if JJ did that, he wouldnt be showing leadership at all, he would just be acting like a cocky jerk. That would be more of a sign of bad leadership than good leadership. Joe already said he wants them back. Thats all he should do. He showed that he values the players and let the GM do his job. If the GM screws up then thats the GM 's fault. and JJ's role as a leader if he is one( no one really knows because we aint in the locker room with these guys) is to lead the team in basketball not managing the team and whining if he doesnt get his way. If he threatens to leave if Josh dont re-sign then he either never wanted to really play in Atlanta anyways or he is a cry baby.

JoshB914 · Post #11 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:17 pm

^^^ JJ has already acted like a "cocky jerk" when he said that his team had "no f*ckn clue" after Game 7. The guy says some dumb things.

JJ still isn't a leader. I agree that saying something publicly wouldn't be the best idea, but I don't see JJ acting like the franchise player we asked him to be. Remember Sekou's article where he tracked JJ down at a charity event and Joe asked him what the scoop was with the Joshes? You would think that he would already know the answer to that if he had been more involved.

I can't really criticize JJ for not being ou leader. He's just doesn't have the type of personality to make guys want to follow him. But Horford/Smith are the vocal and emotional leaders for this team. And if we throw that away then we'll be in big trouble.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #12 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:11 pm

Joe said we played like we had "no f*ckin clue" because we lost by 40 in a game 7. I would say that was an accurate description.

The things people have said to discredit this guys leadership ability(as if this has ANY impact on the Hawks winning games) over the last couple of years is ridiculous. People are confusing not yelling at teammates for messing up and not arguing with the refs non-stop with "no leadership skills".

JoshB914 · Post #13 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:20 pm

You just said that it would be wrong for JJ to call out ASG publicly regarding the current disaster. Yet it's okay for him to call out his own teammates after the disastrous Game 7? I don't get it.

Joe is not a leader. Woodson has said time and time again that he wants JJ to step into that role and he hasn't. You can also see that we lack a leader when you watched the games last year as we were a very weak team mentally (letting teams back in games, getting pushed around etc, not winning on the road etc.)

HoopsGuru25 · Post #14 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:53 pm

You just said that it would be wrong for JJ to call out ASG publicly regarding the current disaster. Yet it's okay for him to call out his own teammates after the disastrous Game 7? I don't get it.

LOL-He said the team played like crap during a game 7. He was right. The WRONG approach would have been to play the "happy to be there" card in a game 7. What the hell does showing frustration after a particular game have in common with DEMANDING A TRADE if a certain player isn't brought back? Didn't Deron Williams also say something similar last year and even mentioning specific names of guys who weren't playing well? Is he now a cocky jerk? The fact is that Joe has vouched for both Joshes and Woodson to come back. That's good enough. There is no need to demand a trade right now because of the negotiations of another player.

Joe is not a leader. Woodson has said time and time again that he wants JJ to step into that role and he hasn't. You can also see that we lack a leader when you watched the games last year as we were a very weak team mentally (letting teams back in games, getting pushed around etc, not winning on the road etc.)

Nothing you named has ANYTHING to do with Joe....but something you just made up as you have been doing for a while now when it comes to this subject. Joe and his "leadership skills" are the last thing holding the Hawks back right now. I would have expected the Hawks to have played a whole lot better without Joe on the court if he is as big of a reason for our problems as you have made him out to be.

conleyorbust · Post #15 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:03 pm

Hoops, I don't think Joe is a good leader. I don't think that is a role he wants. During the begginning of the season, he was visibly pouting (the same thing some people get on Smith for) on the court and at the same time calling out his teamates by asking management to make a trade for a veteran while he was personally having one of the worst stretches of his career - 4 months of 41% shooting. After he had a poor game 7 (shot 5-17, got one assist), he blamed the loss on the young guys. Joe isn't the type to rally his teamates, he isn't the type to take responsibility and he isn't always the type to set a good example. He is however, a great all around player.

I don't think Joe is a leader, I don't think it has that big of an impact, and I don't think he should say anything about this anyway.

reazun · Post #16 » by **reazun** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:32 pm

conleyorbust wrote:Hoops, I don't think Joe is a good leader. I don't think that is a role he wants. During the begginning of the season, he was visibly pouting (the same thing some people get on Smith for) on the court and at the same time calling out his teamates by asking management to make a trade for a veteran while he was personally having one of the worst stretches of his career - 4 months of 41% shooting. After he had a poor game 7 (shot 5-17, got one assist), he blamed the loss on the young guys. Joe isn't the type to rally his teamates, he isn't the type to take responsibility and he isn't always the type to set a good example. He is however, a great all around player.

I don't think Joe is a leader, I don't think it has that big of an impact, and I don't think he should say anything about this anyway.

Im not trying to big up Joe like one of his fanboys, but he said "we had no f'n clue" which includes himself. And whether he was shooting 41% or not, it doesnt matter. He said they needed another veteran and he was right then and he is right now. How is that calling out his teamates? he was merely stating the obvious that he, his team, his coach, and everyone who watches any NBA basketball already knew. We have been the youngest team in the NBA for how many years? He never said that his teamates were bad players, he said they need another vet. thats very far from calling out his teamates. I agree that it doesnt seem like Joe is the vocal leader type, but I dont think we can say that outright without ever being in the lockeroom or actually personally knowing the guy. But maybe yall can read people better than I can. i just dont think we can judge him merely by the few comments that he made in the past, that (to me) doesnt without a shadow of a doubt make him someone that aint a leader. Sometimes people can surprise you when you get to know them, and none of us know JJ at all, it just seems like we do because we watch him play so much

conleyorbust · Post #17 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:51 pm

reazun, you make good points. Its just that I can read people better than you.

Just kidding.

No, I can only judge by what I see but, seeing as this isn't life or death, I feel confident in saying that Joe isn't the leader type. Even when he is on the right track (wanting a better roster), he doesn't seem to phrase things in the way you'd want your star player saying to the media when the rest of the team is young bucks. Some guys go out of their way to instill confidence in their teamates through the media, doesn't really happen with Joe - he just speaks his mind.

Again, it doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things and I don't know if I'd want him to do anything in this situation regardless.

reazun · Post #18 » by **reazun** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:11 am

conleyorbust wrote:reazun, you make good points. Its just that I can read people better than you.

Just kidding.

No, I can only judge by what I see but, seeing as this isn't life or death, I feel confident in saying that Joe isn't the leader type. Even when he is on the right track (wanting a better roster), he doesn't seem to phrase things in the way you'd want your star player saying to the media when the rest of the team is young bucks. Some guys go out of their way to instill confidence in their teamates through the media, doesn't really happen with Joe - he just speaks his mind.

Again, it doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things and I don't know if I'd want him to do anything in this situation regardless.

ok, i see what your saying. that makes sense

JoshB914 · Post #19 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:18 am

HoopsGuru25 wrote:
You just said that it would be wrong for JJ to call out ASG publicly regarding the current disaster. Yet it's okay for him to call out his own teammates after the disastrous Game 7? I don't get it.

LOL-He said the team played like crap during a game 7. He was right. The WRONG approach would have been to play the "happy to be there" card in a game 7. What the hell does showing frustration after a particular game have in common with DEMANDING A TRADE if a certain player isn't brought back? Didn't Deron Williams also say something similar last year and even mentioning specific names of guys who weren't playing well? Is he now a cocky jerk? The fact is that Joe has vouched for both Joshes and Woodson to come back. That's good enough. There is no need to demand a trade right now because of the negotiations of another player.
Joe is not a leader. Woodson has said time and time again that he wants JJ to step into that role and he hasn't. You can also see that we lack a leader when you watched the games last year as we were a very weak team mentally (letting teams back in games, getting pushed around etc, not winning on the road etc.)

Nothing you named has ANYTHING to do with Joe....but something you just made up as you have been doing for a while now when it comes to this subject. Joe and his "leadership skills" are the last thing holding the Hawks back right now. I would have expected the Hawks to have played a whole lot better without Joe on the court if he is as big of a reason for our problems as you have made him out to be.

Okay... where do I start here. Where were you all year when everyone said this team needed a veteran leader? Why do you think that was? Why do you think we continued to do things that teams without a leader do (I wrote them in my last post and you didn't respond to them)?

What did I "make up" about Joe? Woodson is on record saying that he has pushed him to be more of a leader and he has not done that. It's been mentioned so many times about him, I don't see what's so hard to believe.

JJ is a very good player and I'm happy to have him on this team. But he has never lived up to his role as "captain" and it has showed in the results. Like I said, that's fine with me, if Joe just isn't that type of guy then what can we do?

As for the comments after Game 7, I don't see how anyone can condone that. We're talking about JJ going on a profanity-laced tirade regarding a very young team. It bothered me that he won't say a thing on the floor, but then decided to go off on his team to the media after they failed. This isn't Rasheed Wallace ripping on the veteran Pistons, it's Joe attacking and possibly hurting the mental makeup of this team with so much youth.

JoshB914 · Post #20 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:22 am

conleyorbust wrote:Hoops, I don't think Joe is a good leader. I don't think that is a role he wants. During the begginning of the season, he was visibly pouting (the same thing some people get on Smith for) on the court and at the same time calling out his teamates by asking management to make a trade for a veteran while he was personally having one of the worst stretches of his career - 4 months of 41% shooting. After he had a poor game 7 (shot 5-17, got one assist), he blamed the loss on the young guys. Joe isn't the type to rally his teamates, he isn't the type to take responsibility and he isn't always the type to set a good example. He is however, a great all around player.

I don't think Joe is a leader, I don't think it has that big of an impact, and I don't think he should say anything about this anyway.

This is exactly how I feel except for the last part. I do think the fact that our best player is not a leader has made a big impact. The young guys look to Joe and he hasn't given them much to follow. Of course this is something that was fixed to an extent when Bibby came and you could see it almost immediately. And with Horford (who is THE leader of this team) out of his rookie year I think we will see better results because of the improvement in this area.

Of course if we lose Smith none of that will matter.