Marvin Williams watching Danny Granger?

Post #1 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:33 pm

The Pacers can extend the contract of forward Danny Granger anytime between now and the end of October, and it appears as though he could receive a deal similar to the one the 76ers gave Andre Iguodala, according to The Indianapolis Star.

Granger and Iguodala had somewhat similar numbers last season, and Iguodala got a six-year extension worth $80 million from Philadelphia.

Link

CWell · Post #2 » by **CWell** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:03 am

lol I WISH Marvin would want something like that. I would LMAO. He isn't even worth half.

Hawks · Post #3 » by **Hawks** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:35 am

Marvin isn't worth what Smoove got as of right now. I would say Marvin is worth what the Hawks were offering Smoove. That is about $9 mil per over 5 years. I doubt he would take that offer this offseason. I hope he would though.

Venables · Post #4 » by **Venables** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:41 pm

If Marvin could give us Granger production, we'd be a legit contender. Granger is one of my favorite 3s in the league. Basically provides everything you want from the position.

Adobozz · Post #5 » by **Adobozz** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:05 am

You guys think Granger would be averaging 20 a night as a 3rd or 4th scoring option for us? Yeah sure! Marvin would be averaging close to 20 as a 1st or 2nd option on that Pacers teams as well. You guys overrate these other players way too much. Correct me if i am wrong.

conleyorbust · Post #6 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Adobozz wrote:You guys think Granger would be averaging 20 a night as a 3rd or 4th scoring option for us? Yeah sure! Marvin would be averaging close to 20 as a 1st or 2nd option on that Pacers teams as well. You guys overrate these other players way too much. Correct me if i am wrong.

I kinda gotta disagree with that. Granger is better at creating his own shot and does something that Marvin can't do, hit the 3, very very well.

Granger didn't really focus on defense last year and it showed from what I saw and it shows in the stats. Even there though, I think Granger is a better defender when he locks in... he just didn't happen do it nearly enough last season.

I don't think Granger is as good as Iggy and I think Iggy has more room for growth as a player though, I think it would be a step in the wrong direction for the Pacers to offer Granger that much when they really don't need to.

Rip2137 · Post #7 » by **Rip2137** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:55 pm

Marvin is better at creating his offense, though he isn't a great finisher. he looks to draw fouls (way too much IMO). But off the dribble against his defender, he can be almost unstoppable at times. Granger is a MUCH better shooter (that almost doesn't even look right. He is more than a much better shooter. Its like comparing reggie miller to a big or something. Granger is a shooter, Marvin is a midrange guy) and can create, but i don't know if he can do so consistantly against opposing 3's.

He is a damn good player but I don't think he is THAT good to look for that contract (although, I don't think Iggy is that good either). I think Marvin would give you similar results stats wise if he were the at the same offensive tier as granger. As it stands, Marvin is the 4th option on offense for this team and Granger is number 2 at worse. Marvin would score his points differently, but rebouding, defensively, I don't think there would be much difference there.

Venables · Post #8 » by **Venables** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:22 pm

Adobozz wrote:You guys think Granger would be averaging 20 a night as a 3rd or 4th scoring option for us? Yeah sure! Marvin would be averaging close to 20 as a 1st or 2nd option on that Pacers teams as well. You guys overrate these other players way too much. Correct me if i am wrong.

Let me start by saying i've never been the type to "diss" my own players and overrate others.

For me, Granger already does all the things we WANT Marvin to do. He is slightly better in all facets of the game, with his offense being notably better and well-developed.

The distinction I'll make in regards to your response is this: Right now, Granger is capable of being a 1st or 2nd scoring option in the NBA (for a good team tho, he'd be the 2nd option at this point). Right now, Marvin isn't capable of being that. Any team relying on Marvin to be their 1st or 2nd option on an every-night basis, would be in for a long season.

Still, don't get me wrong. I do like Marvin and think he will be a solid 3 going forward. I just think Granger is better now and projects to be better in the future too. Not only that, his skill set is EXACTLY what our team needs at the 3. Him, Josh Howard, Tayshaun, etc. would be IDEAL (good defense, can hit the long shot, rebound well for their size, etc.)

lunarblues · Post #9 » by **lunarblues** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:49 pm

right now granger is a better player than marvin. don't let 10 spots in the draft fool you. this guy had talent coming into the league. only the fact that he came out of new mexico and was older made him slide (i bet the raptors, nets, timberwolves, and bobcats wish they picked him up).

that being said, i think that salaries are starting to come down in the league and with so many teams being tight-fisted, i wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with a deal in the 60-65 mil range.

marvin on the other hand has a big problem. the hawks have already showed that they are going to make the market pay for you so he needs to be looking more into josh smith and not danny granger. teams aren't going to tie up 70 million to make him or his agent happy. there is a good chance we see this scenerio play out all over again.

JMillott · Post #10 » by **JMillott** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:13 pm

Adobozz wrote:You guys think Granger would be averaging 20 a night as a 3rd or 4th scoring option for us? Yeah sure! Marvin would be averaging close to 20 as a 1st or 2nd option on that Pacers teams as well. You guys overrate these other players way too much. Correct me if i am wrong.

Wait...Are you trying to sell the opinion that Danny Granger wouldn't be the Hawks second option if he was on the team?

Danny Granger is a superior offensive player to everybody on the Hawks outside of Joe Johnson, if he were on the Hawks they wouldn't have been sneaking into the Eastern Conference playoffs last year they would've been competing the 4th seed if not better.

Outside of PG the Hawks biggest problem for most of last season was that Josh Smith was the teams second option and Joe Johnson really isn't an ideal #1 option in the first place.

Getting Mike Bibby helped the offense because it gave them an offensive PG who could shoot and run as offense. It allowed Joe Johnson to face less defensive pressure, easier shots and somebody else to kick it out to when teams collasped against his dribble drives.

The next big step for the Hawks this year is to decrease Josh Smith's role in the offense and increase Al Horford and Marvin Williams roles. The truth is that Josh Smith's primary value to the franchise is as a defensive player and ideally on offense as a 3rd or 4th option.

The Hawks absolutely need for this to happen now that they have lost Josh Childress who's efficent scoring largely was able to hide the fact that Josh Smith was amoung the worst second options in all of basketball last year.

parson · Post #11 » by **parson** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:22 am

JMillott wrote:
Adobozz wrote:The next big step for the Hawks this year is to decrease Josh Smith's role in the offense and increase Al Horford and Marvin Williams roles. The truth is that Josh Smith's primary value to the franchise is as a defensive player and ideally on offense as a 3rd or 4th option.

The Hawks absolutely need for this to happen now that they have lost Josh Childress who's efficent scoring largely was able to hide the fact that Josh Smith was amoung the worst second options in all of basketball last year.

Sorry, I disagree. Smoove may be exasperating at times but he is one tiny step away from greatness. If he can boost his ball-handling a little, he'll be able to penetrate to the basket any time he wants. No one can stop him, only his turnovers keep him from scoring -- at will -- on drives (that and his infuriating habit: that little flip he uses to toss the ball up into the basket, rather than using the backboard). Didn't you see how he willed himself to the basket in game 4? Sure, he shoots horribly from 3 and, yes, he throws the ball away way too often; but a guy who can get to the basket whenever he wants is a very rare player.

conleyorbust · Post #12 » by **conleyorbust** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:13 pm

parson wrote:
JMillott wrote:
Adobozz wrote:The next big step for the Hawks this year is to decrease Josh Smith's role in the offense and increase Al Horford and Marvin Williams roles. The truth is that Josh Smith's primary value to the franchise is as a defensive player and ideally on offense as a 3rd or 4th option.

The Hawks absolutely need for this to happen now that they have lost Josh Childress who's efficent scoring largely was able to hide the fact that Josh Smith was amoung the worst second options in all of basketball last year.

Sorry, I disagree. Smoove may be exasperating at times but he is one tiny step away from greatness. If he can boost his ball-handling a little, he'll be able to penetrate to the basket any time he wants. No one can stop him, only his turnovers keep him from scoring -- at will -- on drives (that and his infuriating habit: that little flip he uses to toss the ball up into the basket, rather than using the backboard). Didn't you see how he willed himself to the basket in game 4? Sure, he shoots horribly from 3 and, yes, he throws the ball away way too often; but a guy who can get to the basket whenever he wants is a very rare player.

I don't even see it like that. Smith gets the second most shots because he is the second most capable shot creator. Its not necessarilly ideal but as of now I haven't seen anything from Marvin or Al that makes me think its likely that they will pass him in scoring proficiency unless Al develops his post moves or Marv gets his handle a lot tighter and gets better at hitting shots while moving. Not to mention Smith's offense is developing at the same rate.