Hoopsworld grade on the Hawks offseason

[NDaATL]

Probably the first time I've ever agreed with killbuckner. The Hawks deserve a C at BEST for this offseason.

Childress WAS going to resign until the Hawks told him to hold on while we settle with our more important FA (which they weren't doing, 9 million a year for Smith is an absolute joke). We should buy every Memphis fan in the world a coke and a smile next time they come to ATL, they saved us, otherwise the ASG/Sund would be sticking to their ridiculous under the market proposal to Smith and he'd still be unsigned.

Evans is probably not going to help our shooting woes, he's never even made over 80 threes in a season, so less than 1 per game. Flip Murray is an inefficient scorer who can't shoot and sucks at defense. He sometimes can put up numbers but just doesn't contribute to winning basketball, basically a poor man's Ricky Davis. And, Randolph Morris has some of the worst footwork I've ever seen.

Anyone giving us an A for this offseason is a joke, sorry.

[Master8492]

Evans is probably not going to help our shooting woes, he's never even made over 80 threes in a season, .

He made 81 threes last season. He made 1.2 threes/game because he didn't played in some games.

[JoshB914]

Another point to consider is that we signed Smoove to a VERY reasonable contract. That's a victory for management.

When future negotiations open up with our other players, will they consider it more important that we "respected" Smoove ..... or that we have more $$$ for THEM?

And who would be happy losing Horford or JJ because we overpaid Chilz?

We were offering our franchise player $9.5 M/yr and refusing to offer more. Then Memphis bailed us out and we got him for that current contract. What makes you think that this ownership is going to pay big time $$$ for an FA when they weren't willing to pay arguably their biggest star? Not to mention many FA's won't want to come here after seeing the way the Smith and Chill situations were handled.

[BadWolf]

I'm not a fan, so you'll probably call me a troll.
Why do you think that the way you handled Josh Smith and Childress makes Marvin, Al or JJ happy? Evans is a solid player, a level below Chill and would be great addition to the team you had last year. As a substitution for Josh he's a solid emergency plan, but there's a reason Orlando was not to worried about his departure.
Murray is a dime a dozen, plays no defense, is not efficient shooter and is really nothing more then a marginal rotattion player.
I've seen Morris a few times last year with NY. He is a big body with not much basketball skill, prone to foul and very slow.
Childress was a debacle however you spin it.
id give Atlanta C - for results, F - for style.

[killbuckner]

I just am astounded by the turnaround of perception around Murray on this board. I really think that I recall last season that many people here said they would prefer Salim to Murray, where now Murray is being seen as a significant improvement of the bench. RealGM doesn't have those old threads available for me to go back and pull up quotes.

But all that said- I do think that the Hawks bench has a chance to be significantly better, but thats mainly because Speedy is one of the best backup PG's in the league when healthy and he adds a dimension that the other Hawks PG's don't bring. But I still think the Hawks would prefer it if he just went ahead and retired and they could save the money (and cap hit) and that has nothing to do with how the Hawks organization did this offseeason.

If you team makes a dramatic improvement you get an A. (You become a championship contender you get an A+) If you just make a bunch of solid moves with no major missteps and steadily improves then thats a B. A C is treading water where the team is in around the same shape as they were at the end of last season. A D means that there was a significant misstep that wasn't made up by other moves. An F is an Isiah type "screwed the franchise moving forward" move.

I just can't believe that anyone can look at the Hawks and think they deserve an A

[JoshB914]

KB- a lot of people on this board actually wanted Salim to play. We don't want to go down that road.

I didn't like Flip then, and I don't like him now. He plays no defense, hogs the ball, and is an extremely streaky shooter and that's being generous. I'll wait to see how he fits in and if he can prove me wrong, but I don't see why we signed him.

[conleyorbust]

I've been on record saying that I thought a less talented player who could nail the 3 and play defense would fit better than Chil. I think that Flip fills a huge need for us, a scorer off the bench, even if he is too flawed to consistently get more than 17 minutes or so, I think we got a GREAT contract for Smith, I certainly think that all things being equal - our team will improve because we will be able to integrate Bibby into the offense which will help the development of Al/Josh/Marv, I even think that Randolph has a better shot to contribute than most players with his stat-line because of his weird history in the league.

That being said, the best thing I can say about this offseason was that crisis was averted. We haven't finished yet so maybe better things are yet to come.

We signed Josh Smith but it was to a contract that a lot of pundits (including Sekou) thought he'd take anyway, in other words we didn't have to risk trouble with angry agents down the line. We swapped Chil for Evans and Mo but (in a way) but we could have gotten those two plus something else if we'd tried harder for an SnT earlier in the process instead of telling him to "go out and find something better". Our need for a backup big man was addressed by an undrafted FA, a big man who hasn't been a contributor in his career, and the hope that Zaza can shake out of his slump.

It isn't about whether we will be better in the win column than last season... its about how good we could have been if we had been more proactive. Now, I don't love Sund be he obviously knows how to build a bench better than BK who would just sign any dude that... well I'm not sure how he did it but it didn't seem to work - and Sund's hands are as tied as any GM in the league. He hasn't really done anything to piss me off, a Smith for JHoward/Bass would have done that. Still, you can bet if we had Pritchard/Presti/Buford, there would have been a lot more action. Maybe its ownership.

This is a C+/B- for me because I'm still on a high that we didn't our RESTRICTED free agent.

[parson]

Consider http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sport ... nform_artr :

Hawks winners in free agency
Despite losing Childress team adds backcourt depth
By SEKOU SMITH

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Friday, August 29, 2008

Now that the NBA’s free agency period is all but over, Chicago’s Ben Gordon is still waiting, it’s time to start evaluating the winners and losers from the league’s annual player scramble:

WINNERS




Hawks

Even with the departure of Josh Childress to Greece, the Hawks made out like bandits on the free-agent scene. They kept Josh Smith in the fold for a mere $58 million and added much needed veteran help in Mo Evans and Flip Murray at crucial backup backcourt positions at minimum prices. A six-year deal for Smith with the same annual salary would have ended up being around $72 million, which is a bit more than the Hawks were willing to pay their starting power forward. But the Memphis Grizzlies did the heavy lifting for them by presenting Smith with an offer sheet the Hawks matched within hours after receiving it — making good on their promise to do just that when Smith turned down a $45 million offer before the start of his fourth season.

Just saying ...

[killbuckner]

you think the beatwriter for the Hawks praising them is somehow evidence that the Hawks deserve an A for this offseason!?

[parson]

you think the beatwriter for the Hawks praising them is somehow evidence that the Hawks deserve an A for this offseason!?

Pick up your little dictionary ... look up the word "evidence."

Certainly, this is evidence. What it is not, however, is proof. But to the point, the argument is now Hoopsworld/Sekou/(little ol' me) on one side and you on the other, unable to believe this good news about the Hawks.

Imagine if they'd said this about teams you LIKE, such as your Celtics or Nuggets. Imagine how easy it'd be for you to believe them. Now you can understand how I see Hoopsworld and Sekou.

[killbuckner]

I don't think its evidence at all- irrelevant is the term I would use. His job is to foster interest in reading about the Hawks. Beatwriters are pretty much equal to cheerleaders in their objectiveness.

[parson]

Your hate depresses me -- it's so knee-jerk.

Find a team you like.

[conleyorbust]

SI just think its funny that Mo Evans and Flip Murray are enough to make anyone think that the Hawks had a GREAT offseason.

Thanks for not listening. It's a bit frustrating discussing Hawks matters with you.

It's obvious you get no pleasure talking about the Hawks; why play the troll? Why not simply find a team you enjoy?

Killjoy, just so's you'll know, we're in the core-building part of our team's development. These players will continue to improve physically and skill-wise -- individually -- for 3-4 more years. The core, however, is also growing, as they learn to work as a team, and synergy is a beautiful thing. This team is on the way up, with Chilz or without him.

You are missing the point parson. The team will be better because Smith, Horford, and Williams will all grow a little more but that has nothing to do with how the Hawks played THIS offseason, which is the one being judged. If the question is about whether the Hawks will be better, than yes, what you are saying here matters. Since it is about the moves the team made to improve, kb's analysis is correct. They added two role players and lost one while leaving sizable question marks in a couple of spots.

I like having kb around here. I disagree with him much of the time but he's not a contrarian, just a skeptic. He doesn't dislike the Hawks, he just doesn't watch them with the same passion that some do, which is his perogative...

[parson]

Conley, in the article being discussed, Hoopsworld listed our youngster's growth as part of our offseason's business, so it's part of the grade.

But you say I'm missing the point, so here's the point: we got better this offseason. Our bench is now better than it was. We didn't lose Chilz, we traded him for a better, deeper bench that now makes much more sense. Chilz was a fine player (and I loved him as a player) but he didn't make sense as a backup point (which, despite 82games' insistence, he actually DID play for us) nor as a backup SG. He made sense as a SF only; unfortunately, that stole minutes from Marvelous. Starting SF might be better because Marvin can't be subbed out at the same spot in the 1st qtr. every game. PG and SF will definitely be better at the backup positions.

Besides, y'all are totally ignoring the benefit of signing Smoove to a favorable contract. The NBA is all about $$$ and we managed that very well. It is a HUGE deal that we have Smoove for the next 5 years at such an easy-to-handle price. Management deserves credit for that.

And Killjoy is a hater. Bah, support him however you wish.

[conleyorbust]

Conley, in the article being discussed, Hoopsworld listed our youngster's growth as part of our offseason's business, so it's part of the grade.

But you say I'm missing the point, so here's the point: we got better this offseason. Our bench is now better than it was. We didn't lose Chilz, we traded him for a better, deeper bench that now makes much more sense. Chilz was a fine player (and I loved him as a player) but he didn't make sense as a backup point (which, despite 82games' insistence, he actually DID play for us) nor as a backup SG. He made sense as a SF only; unfortunately, that stole minutes from Marvelous. Starting SF might be better because Marvin can't be subbed out at the same spot in the 1st qtr. every game. PG and SF will definitely be better at the backup positions.

Besides, y'all are totally ignoring the benefit of signing Smoove to a favorable contract. The NBA is all about $$$ and we managed that very well. It is a HUGE deal that we have Smoove for the next 5 years at such an easy-to-handle price. Management deserves credit for that.

And Killjoy is a hater. Bah, support him however you wish.

The reason we disagree w/ hoopsworld is because they are calling it a good offseason for things, like player growth, that actually don't have to do with the offseason.

I'm not a big fan of Chilz, I thought we would be better off without him. He was also an asset that we lost for nothing. We didn't use cap space to make signings, we used the MLE. We still have holes on the roster. We resigned Smith but we also pissed him off and put other players on the team on notice that the FO will play games instead of making a fair offer. We don't know what would have happened if we'd made that offer.

You can love the Hawks and not love everything they do. I like Marvin Williams but that doesn't mean I can't know the team would be a whole lot better with Chris Paul instead, you know?

[parson]

The reason we disagree w/ hoopsworld is because they are calling it a good offseason for things, like player growth, that actually don't have to do with the offseason.

1. Player growth had better be the concern of any management.
2. You're saying Hoopsworld doesn't understand Hoopsworld's own words (but that YOU do).

I'm not a big fan of Chilz, I thought we would be better off without him.

Plus for the Hawks, huh?

He was also an asset that we lost for nothing.

No, we lost him but kept the money. Again, in the NBA, that's a big deal.

We didn't use cap space to make signings, we used the MLE.

We're looking at the LT; money spent anywhere is out of the same pocket.

We still have holes on the roster.

Hoopsworld and Sekou listed 5 additions, 4 of whom (IMO) make more sense than the bench we had.

We resigned Smith but we also pissed him off

So what? He's got 5 years to cool down. Do you believe he'll play worse or try less?

and put other players on the team on notice that the FO will play games instead of making a fair offer.

Would you prefer a future where we tell our players, "Sorry, we gave your cash to Smoove. But you can be sure we love you as much as we love him." They'd leave. For goodness sake, Smoove was outta here if he'd found more cash somewhere.

We don't know what would have happened if we'd made that offer.

Yes, we do; we'd have less money. If Smoove plays poorly next year, do you think he'll offer to give part of the money back?

You can love the Hawks and not love everything they do. I like Marvin Williams but that doesn't mean I can't know the team would be a whole lot better with Chris Paul instead, you know?

And you can hate anything about the Hawks (while loving the Celtics and Nuggets). Killjoy has told us he does not love the Hawks. Try another defense.

[conleyorbust]

It just seems to me like you are looking at it in terms of "well it wasn't bad, therefore it had to be good".

I think the "A" designation should be reserved for teams that make themselves noticably better. Fill all their holes, etc.

We still have a massive depth issue in the frontcourt and an injury prone point guard with a completely unproven backup. We didn't move a less proven asset for a more proven star (not that we had to, thats just the type of move that makes a GREAT offseason). We ended up getting Josh back but he seemed pretty happy with the 58, you have no clue what happens if we offer that early, before the other offers come in. He could take that and we go along strengthening the bench.

I'm not saying that Hoopsworld doesn't understand their own words, I'm saying that the people at Hoopsworld are, for the most part, as qualified as you or I to analyze basketball and if they think that a player getting better by working out on his own is a direct result of FO work THIS offseason, they don't understand what they are trying to analyze (THIS offseason).

[JoshB914]

I can go online and find just as many articles criticizing the Hawks on the offseason. I don't see how hoopsworld or AJC praising our offseason matters.

[killbuckner]

Once again- who here can say with a straight face they would have been supportive of a Childress for Evans and Flip Murray trade last year at the deadline?

[JoshB914]

You can't just throw A grades around. Like I said before, the Celtics' summer of 2007 gets a grade of A+. If anyone thinks our summer of 2008 is comprable to that then they're crazy.

Can you argue that we had a good offseason? Absolutely. However, trying to argue that we had perhaps the best summer of any team in the entire NBA is a littme much.

As for hoopsworld, I enjoy reading their rumors (even though most of them appear to be made up or innacruate), but their columnists are terrible. A few of the guys at the top appear to have some inside info, but the guy that wrote this just seems like some fan with no more access or knowledge than us.