who was more dissapointing this postseason. Joe or Al?

[johnny878]

i found this interesting from tonights game btw

Josh Smith=26pts

Joe/bibby/Marvin/Horford=25

[killbuckner]

The Hawks needed Flip Murray to be an X factor in this series and it just never happened. That really hurt.

With Joe the Cavs were the best defense in the league this season and they could focus on shutting down JOe and the Hawks didn't really have another person who created much of a mismatch.

With Al the injury complicates the evaluation. Though he wasn't exactly doing great before he got hurt against the Heat.

[LL Cool Scott]

Basketball-wise - it was Al. He improved very little (if at all) over his promising rookie year.

Leadership-wise - it was Joe. He just doesn't have the strength or mental makeup to lead a team. We desperately need to trade for a true star so Joe can settle into the quiet second banana roll he is destined to be.

If you put Bosh on this team, and allow Joe and Josh to back him up, we might be able to compete with Orlando and Cleveland in the future.

[johnny878]

speaking of flip, how much money do you think he is going to get in free agency?

[ATL DirtyBird]

^^^Im really hoping that we pick up Bosh. I doubt it will happen but im really hoping it will happen!

[HMFFL]

Al Horford was more disappointing. Even when he was healthy he showed that he would be a non-factor. The bench also disappointing me. We needed the bench to step up, some of the players needed to prove they belong at the NBA level, and it didn't happen for most of the playoffs. The bench needs to be constructed into a winner.

[Skar]

I blame the whole team, no heart, no leadership, wait, actually I blame the rigged sport.

[johnny878]

Al Horford was more disappointing. Even when he was healthy he showed that he would be a non-factor. The bench also disappointing me. We needed the bench to step up, some of the players needed to prove they belong at the NBA level, and it didn't happen for most of the playoffs. The bench needs to be constructed into a winner.

well evans was pretty disappointign this whole postseason. but flip and zaza gave me about what i expected.

cant really blame any of the other bench players forced into playingtime. how can they play well when woodson never played them in the regular season?

[MaceCase]

I don't know, I find it very hard to blame Joe because he was basically run into the ground all season. The guy is not a light distance runner physique type of player like Iverson or Rip so you know it had to be beyond difficult carrying his 240 pound frame 40 + minutes a night facing double teams and chasing quicker perimeter players that Bibby couldn't stay in front of. Watching him in the playoffs you could just tell he was physically and mentally exhausted that the offense didn't get any more efficient due to scheme and supporting cast. I'd have to throw my vote at Al, he just played too small and never asserted himself on defense or the boards. He used to win battles just on intimidating swagger alone but during these two series he just looked uncertain in his abilities.

[tbhawksfan]

Blame Woodson. We have soooooo much evidense of Woodson's ineptitude that I think it's unfair to judge the players based on the terrible coaching and inactive GM'ing.

[sh00n]

If you put Bosh on this team, and allow Joe and Josh to back him up, we might be able to compete with Orlando and Cleveland in the future.

Bosh isn't a leader either - but with him and JJ on one team they'd look crazy dangerous. Bosh wouldn't have to worry about the late game shots. That team would still need a vocal leader, though.

[Harry10]

Joe by far

their is no way the Hawks could beat the best team in the NBA if Joe under performed. it is okay if a role player under performs, but not your #1 option.

the only reason why the Hawks took the Celtics to 7 last year, is because Joe put up 30pts in a few games. and i might remind you that the 2008 Celtics where a better defensive team that this year's Cavs. and the Celtics just like the Cavs whole team, focused to shutting down Joe.

last year Bibby under performed against the Celtics, but the Hawks still did better in that series because Joe performed to his level. so if Horford under performs, it shouldn't change the Hawks' competiveness in the series as much Joe under performs.

[killbuckner]

I just saw Cleveland doubling Joe to get the ball in his hands as soon as he crossed half court. If a defensive as good as Cleveland is determined to take one player away then I think they can do it and then its up to the rest of the team to attack a scrambling defense. Joe is doing his job by drawing the double and finding the open man. The problem is that particularly with Horford and Marvin hurting the Hawks just don't have a ton of threats in the half court that the defense is worried about. The Hawks need more offensive firepower.

[Harry10]

last year, Joe got doubles on every posession with Posey and Pierce as the primary defender...... this year, the primary defender was West....... it was just a horrible horrible under performance.

[HMFFL]

Al Horford was more disappointing. Even when he was healthy he showed that he would be a non-factor. The bench also disappointing me. We needed the bench to step up, some of the players needed to prove they belong at the NBA level, and it didn't happen for most of the playoffs. The bench needs to be constructed into a winner.

well evans was pretty disappointign this whole postseason. but flip and zaza gave me about what i expected.

cant really blame any of the other bench players forced into playingtime. how can they play well when woodson never played them in the regular season?

The bench is made up of scrubs. All of the bench players are replaceable, but Mo Evans, ZaZa Pachulia and Flip Murray are the ones that Woodson could count on. Solomon Jones has proven he's not capable of playing at this level and he's been a waste of a roster spot for years. I'm open to Thomas Gardner and Othello Hunter having a roster spot if we can't sign an upgrades.

[Master8492]

I don't see how you can say Solo has proven this and that with the amounts of playing time given...and very inconsistently. He played well in spurts but got his confidence shot down every time ... just like every other young bench players under Woodson. Acie and Solo are the one that received a lot of criticism, but I don't think that's fair to them.

As for who's disappointed the most, I would say Flip Murray. He got the green light from Woodson all games long and couldn't shoot for jack. He even took a lot of shots when it matters the most(later in 4th quarter). I would rather play Bibby and Evans in the 4th and let them shoot. Can't say for Al or Marvin since they are playing with injuries.

[JoshB914]

^^^ You should check out the game log for Solo this season. He played in virtually every game from around the New Year until mid February. He had more than enough opportunities to prove himself and he ended up averaging 2 fouls per game in 11 minutes an outing which makes me throw up in my mouth a little. He seems like a good kid, but I don't see any reason to bring him back next year.

And I have to defend Joe a little bit. I thought he did all he could these past two games, think about all of the open shots we got (and subsequently missed because I think this team was clearly intimidated) because of him passing out of the double team.

I do agree with the OP that it is sad that for all the crap we give Smith, he tends to be the guy that steps up and brings it in the biggest games. Unfortunately it hurts us a bit when Smith is that guy, because that guarantees us several empty possessions with him shooting jumpers and a few dumb turnovers thanks to his over-dribbling.

[conleyorbust]

Well, Al got injured so he gets a bit of a break for the 3-4 statline against Cle... I don't think he would have made much of a difference regardless, but thats just my strange "Al Horford isn't the next Karl Malone" prejudice. Joe was bad. Real bad. On the other hand, what do you expect? We know his strengths as a player, we know his ability, and we know what we ask him to do. Joe Johnson isn't the type of player who can destroy a good defense keyed in on him for a 7 game series (he had a couple games vs Boston, but some stinkers too).

On the other hand, I'm not getting into this post-loss fatalism again. Josh, for all his idiocy, showed signs of developing as a half court player this year. Joe can still shoot the ball and be a late-clock option. We won 47 games. There were definite signs of improvement on the offensive end this year and I think we can build on them (the Bibby blow-up at Woody where he told him "put him somewhere else" was tlling to me, we can manipulate our offense in ways like that).

I've said for a while that I didn't think this was a chip team but that to compete for a chip you need a superstar and none of our assets are going to land us one unless we trade them all for nothing and land a high pick in a good draft. Trading any of our guys for nothing doesn't get us any closer so I'd either like to stay the course and keep tweaking or upgrade, but only if its an opportunity for a real upgrade.

[HMFFL]

I don't see how you can say Solo has proven this and that with the amounts of playing time given...and very inconsistently. He played well in spurts but got his confidence shot down every time ... just like every other young bench players under Woodson. Acie and Solo are the one that received a lot of criticism, but I don't think that's fair to them.

I will help Solo pack his bags myself and will even load them into his Chevy truck if it means he doesn't play here again. How you feel about him has been the same excuse by some Hawk fans every off-season. Solo didn't man up when he was called upon and he completely embarrassed himself during the playoffs. Randolph Morris can take the role of Solo next season and warm the pine. It's about time we find players that are worth a damn to come off the bench.

[realfung]

Hawks just need a leader.