I can't believe i am saying this

[Harry10]

^ i'm not really sure what happen in SAC, but i do know that for some reason they went with a twin tower thing with a Mikki/Miller front court with Miller at PF and then they would take Mikki out and put Garcia and move Artest to PF, and they would also put Hawes in at backup C to develop him.

when given about 18min, Shel can put up 5/5, which is decent for a back up PF in the NBA (horrible for a #5 pick). last year Maxiell got 5/4, Davis got 7/4, Craig Smith's points have gone up to 10ppg, but rebounds have gone done to 3.8rpg, Millsap and Lee's rookie number were 6/5, their numbers have gone up, but their min have gone up to, so their is no big difference in their year to year PER. Shel's PER every year is about 10/10, last year, Diaw got alot of min, but Diaw's PER was 13/5.

general, 5/5 for a back up PF is slightly above average. if you look at every team's back up PF, most don't get 5/5 and only a few like Bass and Landry get above 7/5.

when Shel was a Hawk, his offense was disappointing. i was really disappointed that he couldn't finish strong close to the basket in the middle of traffic, but i have to admit, his defensive rebound was pretty good, he did get alot of them and did make an effort to box out, which is something that alot of NBA players don't do.

my first choice is McDyess, their are only 3 or 4 guys in the NBA who do a good job on Dwight and Dyess is one of them. Joe Smith last year got 6/5, but has the standing reach of a center and is athletic and i think would help the Hawks more against the Cavs and Magic.

[azuresou1]

5/5 is terrible.

Maxiell is there primarily to play defense, something Shelden doesn't do.
Big Baby was a sophomore and showed that he can play as a starter; Shelden is entering his 6th year and is still a bench player.
Craig Smith is a scrub.
You're referring to Millsap and Lee's ROOKIE NUMBERS. It doesn't work like that. You realize Kobe averaged 7.6/2/1.5 in 15 MPG as a rookie? And T-MAc averaged 7/41.5 in 18 MPG?

Most NBA backup big men are garbage, which is okay if you're a team with no real aspirations, but we're now a playoff contender team that will be gunning for the title in about 2-3 years. Every move we make should be to construct a championship contending team with what we have, not just settle for 'slightly above average.'

[Harry10]

5/5 is terrible.

Maxiell is there primarily to play defense, something Shelden doesn't do.
Big Baby was a sophomore and showed that he can play as a starter; Shelden is entering his 6th year and is still a bench player.
Craig Smith is a scrub.
You're referring to Millsap and Lee's ROOKIE NUMBERS. It doesn't work like that. You realize Kobe averaged 7.6/2/1.5 in 15 MPG as a rookie? And T-MAc averaged 7/41.5 in 18 MPG?

Most NBA backup big men are garbage, which is okay if you're a team with no real aspirations, but we're now a playoff contender team that will be gunning for the title in about 2-3 years. Every move we make should be to construct a championship contending team with what we have, not just settle for 'slightly above average.'

Lee and Millsap and Shel were 4 year guys in college, Kobe and TMac were high school guys. Kobe's PER numbers have gone from a low of 14 to a peak of 28. Lee's PER has only gone up 5 and Millsap's PER has gone down 3. Millsap and Lee have better numbers, but they have also have more minutes. the question is, if given starter minutes for a whole season, can Shel average 10/10, i don't know, but i do remember he did have a few double doubles when he got starter minutes when Zaza was injuried.

contender teams huh? .... Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, Lakers, Denver,...... i might be missing something, but could you please tell me which one of those teams have a highly productive backup PF?

BTW: Shelden has been in the league for 6 YEARS??? have i missed something?

[killbuckner]

contender teams huh? .... Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, Lakers, Denver,...... i might be missing something, but could you please tell me which one of those teams have a highly productive backup PF?

Rasheed Wallace
Brandon Bass
Lamar Odom
Birdman

Cleveland doesn't currently... not sure how they are going to balance the roster with Z and Shaq both on the team. Honestly if they are smart then Lebron is their backup PF.

Do you really believe that Shelden Williams is in the same category as these other players?

I have said that I think that of the players available Shelden can be useful to the hawks but that doesn't mean that I think he is anywhere close to on par with the benches of the other contending teams.

[Harry10]

^ i didn't realize that Odom was a bench player..... when he ended up starting for the Lakers for the second half of the season and the playoffs.

Bass was on the Mavs last years, and Rasheed was on the Pistons. i didn't realize how their future signings helps advance the Magic and Celtics into the playoffs for the previous season. are you even paying attention to the conversation?

i do like Birdman, he is productive........ but his production was only 6/6..... not really a big leap ahead of 5/5

[killbuckner]

Fine- pick whoever you like out of Odom, Bynum, or Gasol for the Lakers. Odom started because Bynum was injured.

You asked which teams HAVE a highly productive backup PF. All of those teams do. The conversation is how much Shelden Williams would help the Hawks next season right? Not how much he helped the Hawks last season.

And seriously- do you really want to compare Shelden Williams to Birdman? Birdman was one of the top 5 benchplayers in the league last season.

[azuresou1]

Birdman averaged something ridiculous like 3.5 blocks per 36 or something... a far cry from Shelden. Also, its not like he was taking a ton of shots, he just had to trail for easy transition dunks.

Birdman >>> Shelden.

[azuresou1]

I was wrong. 4.3 Blks

[killbuckner]

Whats ironic is that I am sort of split on this. I do think that Shelden very well could help the team more than whoever the Hawks end up signing this season but that doesn't mean that I think the Hawks would have anywhere close to the depth that the other contending team does. And you know why that is? The contending teams are willing to pay the luxury tax and I dont think that there is any chance at all that the Hawks will do that.

[Harry10]

Birdman averaged something ridiculous like 3.5 blocks per 36 or something... a far cry from Shelden. Also, its not like he was taking a ton of shots, he just had to trail for easy transition dunks.

Birdman >>> Shelden.

i don't really know who you are arguing with? but i am glad you understand what PER36 is, because you should check out Shel's PER36 numbers compaired to other back up PFs. it is just funny the drunken hatred fans get into because Shel was the #5 pick, which is not his fault, it is Billy's fault. if Shel was a second round pick like Millsap, which is where i think all duke players should be selected, then people's perceptions of him would not be so impaired.

and again, i still don't understand how having a quality backup PF is a prerequisite to win a championship or make it into the EC finals? espeically how far Orlando, Cleveland, and LA made it into the playoffs last year.

[azuresou1]

Orlando: no PF to speak off, solid backup F in Pietrus and solid backup C in Gortat
Cleveland: Ben Wallace and Joe Smith, two solid if unimpressive backup PFs
LA: Lamar Odom

Atlanta: ... Zaza?

[Harry10]

woe!?...., i don't know why you are dragging Zaza into this, i actually like Zaza, he is one of the few guys on the team who plays with some attitude. he won't let KG bully him around and played great for the Hawks in the playoffs, the last two years.

Ben: 2.9/6.5
Joe: 6.6/4.6
Gorat: 3.8/4.5
Zaza: 6.2/5.7

i'm pull for the Hawks to get Joe Smith, but Zaza is the man! he is one of the few guys who actually stepped it up in the playoffs and did great against the Heat.

and again....... i don't really understand why 5/5 (for a backup PF) is "terrible"?

[azuresou1]

I do like Zaza, but all three of the others play better defense than Zaza, which is one of the two things I look for in a backup big man, the other being defense. Anything else is icing on the cake.

[D21]

As we were previously talking about adding Petro in this thread, there were some news.

He's not with the French NT anymore, so he will certainly be now in search of a new contract.
He was replaced in the team by Mahinmi from SAS, who seems to be faster than Petro on the defensive end (from french NT coach).

Link