The Hawks other free agent

evildallas · Post #1 » by **evildallas** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:10 am

I've read a lot of speculation about how popular Joe Johnson will be this off-season. The Hawks have another free agent at the end of the season, Mike Woodson. This type of thing doesn't happen often (coaches normally get fired with time left of their contract). When Nate McMillan finished out his contract with the Sonics his services were snapped up by Portland. Even though it is almost certain the Hawks would prefer to keep Woodson, is there a danger that something similar could happen with Woodson? What teams do you think might be interested in making an offer to Woodson this summer, if any? Do you think Woodson would take another job instead of resigning (maybe for a longer contract or more years)?

ATL DirtyBird · Post #2 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:12 am

If Woodson left would that cause problems?

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:45 am

Good expansion of the topic. I wasn't taking a side on good or bad, just laying out the topic for discussion on whether it is a possibility.

parson · Post #4 » by **parson** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 4:19 am

Woodson will take any job, of course.

The question will be answered when he makes a difference, either in the regular season or playoffs. To this point, he really hasn't. When the team was lacking in talent, he stood around and watched them. Now that the team's loaded with talent, he stands around and watches them, still. Short of it is, if the team wins in the playoffs, he'll cash in.

There is no reason to panic and sign him. What would we miss? More isolation plays?

I'm a big fan of Alex English. Lawrence Franks is available. I'd kill for Jerry Sloan or Mike D'Antoni -- I'd give up draft picks to get either. Sam Mitchell believes in the D'Antoni approach; he might be interesting. Avery Johnson is a good all-around coach who'd love the job. Byron Scott might be a good teacher for Teague. I'm sure I'm forgetting too many but this is off the top of my head.

BAMABIRD · Post #5 » by **BAMABIRD** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 6:37 am

Woodson derserves to be here. If the Hawks could find a way to land a center, they would be ready for anybody. We're one player away from being a Championship team. Hopefully Joe resigns and maybe the front office makes a move for center.

killbuckner · Post #6 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 1:34 pm

Woodson is an above average coach. I think its important to keep him since I think there is virtually no chance that the ASG would pay what it would take to get an upgrade over him.

Post #7 » by **wizardg** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 2:24 pm

Woodson is very replaceable.
I can'r judge what he does in pratice. I have to give him some credit for the Hawks defense and their overall success.
But his in game decsions and the Hawks offense leave a lot to be desired. But hey, when we (Atlanta) got him not a lot of people wanted this job and he has grown with the position.

I've watched Phil Jackson and Pat Riley from their first days as coaches and Woody is on par or ahead of them at a similar point in their careers. Coaching Kareem (6 MVPS), Jordan (5 MVPS) and Magic pippen, Shaq does wonders for your ability to coach.

This is a players league and talent acquisition is the key right now.
I'd love Avery, Dwayne Casey and Franks .. I like a lot of others Jordan, Scott, T Porter.

Their will be more available at seasons end.

I like Woodson. He lives in my neighborhood and he enjoys being seen at the supermarket and restuarants now that the Hawks are winners. He used to wear disguises, okay Im exaggerating but he will resign if given the opt. He has one of the top five jobs in the NBA now.

killbuckner · Post #8 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 2:42 pm

But his in game decsions and the Hawks offense leave a lot to be desired

See- this is what I don't get. THe hawks have been spectacular on offense this season and the defense has struggled- yet people act like Woodson's offense is holding this team back. Woodson has gotten a ridiculous amount of production from this roster on offense.

azuresou1 · Post #9 » by **azuresou1** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:04 pm

killbuckner wrote:
But his in game decsions and the Hawks offense leave a lot to be desired

See- this is what I don't get. THe hawks have been spectacular on offense this season and the defense has struggled- yet people act like Woodson's offense is holding this team back. Woodson has gotten a ridiculous amount of production from this roster on offense.

This again?

The Hawks have two modes of offense - when they take what the opponent gives them, and when they force the issue. When we're in the former mode, we do great - everyone shares the ball, players make cuts, we get easy, quality looks, and the players are more motivated so we also play better defense.

When we're in the latter mode, we run almost exclusively isolation plays for Joe or Jamal, and sometimes it works, but more often than not it doesn't. This is further compounded by the fact that neither of them drives a lot, and so we get lots of jumpshots, with little chance of getting a foul that puts the opposite team in foul trouble.

The defense and offense are inherently connected, not only in terms of from a purely basketball standpoint (missed jumpers are more likely to lead to a fast break than a missed layup etc.), but also because we are a energy based team. If Smoove makes a nice cut and makes an alleyoop, he's going to try to demolish the next layup that comes his way. If he takes a long jumpshot 22 seconds into the clock after isolation play fails, and it inevitably misses, he is going to amble over on defense and halfheartedly contest. Given that our perimeter defense has the mobility of a chair, you can see why this is a problem.

Can we get a damn slasher on this team who doesn't shy away from contact? Every team has realized by now that the best way to defend Dwight is to attack him with slashers and get him into foul trouble but us.

killbuckner · Post #10 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:24 pm

The problem isn't letting Joe an Crawford beating their man 1 on 1- its having them settle for long jumpers after they beat their man 1 on 1. At thiat point Crawford and Joe need to drive and draw contact or find the open man so they can attack an unsettled defense. Its embarassing how little joe gets to the line considering how often the Hawks have the ball in his hands. Thats not a problem with the offense- thats a problem with Joe.

azuresou1 · Post #11 » by **azuresou1** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 3:57 pm

A problem with Joe is a problem with the offense. As a coach, you need to tell your players to stop settling for jumpers when they aren't falling and to drive the basket. If you can't, you need to find a player who can.

For instance, Phil coaches the Lakers, but Kobe is prone to do his own sh*t. As a result, he asks starts Derek Fisher despite Shannon Brown being far better, because he's one of two people who can tell Kobe what to do, and the other (Brian Shaw) is an assistant coach. And also because Fish hits clutch shots, but that's an asides.

killbuckner · Post #12 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 4:21 pm

NBA players aren't marionette dolls. All an NBA coach can do is put them in position to succeed. JOe is in position to succeed and there are times when he is just making bad split second decisions. To me it seems like its a contract year he is avoiding contact far more than he did last season. I think he is worried about getting hurt- nothing Woodson can do will change that dynamic. You can't force a player to WANT to get knocked down.

Post #13 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 4:37 pm

killbuckner wrote:NBA players aren't marionette dolls. All an NBA coach can do is put them in position to succeed. JOe is in position to succeed and there are times when he is just making bad split second decisions. To me it seems like its a contract year he is avoiding contact far more than he did last season. I think he is worried about getting hurt- nothing Woodson can do will change that dynamic. You can't force a player to WANT to get knocked down.

I believe this is the case. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that Joe has been reluctant to get to the foul line and it's hurting us on offense. Career low with Atlanta, 3.4 attempts per game. As you know, Woodson can only control so many aspects, and this is out of his hands.

td00 · Post #14 » by **td00** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 4:40 pm

Our 2 free agents IMO will have no problem getting their contracts completed at the end of the season, despite if we take another step this year. I do see 2 areas of concern to warrant them getting long-term security here.

Woodson has to coach us to a 2nd round series, or the season will be an underachievement.
JJ has to prove he has the energy to perform in the playoffs this year to guarantee a max offer from the ASG.

Personally, I think the ASG goes as far as possible to keep both of them here, because they aren't big on major changes. Sund is not in the gossip for major deals, and Waddell and Woodson are still in their same position. If Knight wanted to stay, he would still be here. I honestly believe that.

Now, for the Hawks to go the East Finals or come close to the East finals, it is going to have to happen with this roster. That may be a reach to think we can get this far. I believe we need to be looking at options to be able to match up with Cleveland and Orlando.
Who is available that gives LeBron and Howard some level of difficulty that would be able to assist us?

I think we have to avoid standing pat and take a shot at getting to the Finals this year. But we go as far as Joe takes us and as far as Woody stays out of the way.

azuresou1 · Post #15 » by **azuresou1** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 4:56 pm

I think we can easily make the ECF depending on seeding; the Finals possibly with some luck. To be honest, I'm not expecting a true title run for another year or two, when Josh, Al, and Marvin are in their legitimate primes.

Round 1: Toronto
Round 2: Boston
ECF: Cleveland
Finals: Lakers

If we get this slate, I think we have an outside shot at winning.

evildallas · Post #16 » by **evildallas** » Mon Feb 1, 2010 5:19 pm

killbuckner wrote:NBA players aren't marionette dolls. All an NBA coach can do is put them in position to succeed. JOe is in position to succeed and there are times when he is just making bad split second decisions. To me it seems like its a contract year he is avoiding contact far more than he did last season. I think he is worried about getting hurt- nothing Woodson can do will change that dynamic. You can't force a player to WANT to get knocked down.

I agree with this observation. The sad part is the domino effect it has produced. Joe willingness to settle fails to break down the D creating opportunities for others and in turn they stand back and watch as Joe pounds the ball because they don't think they'll get the ball. This makes the team much easier to defend in crunch time. Not just because of a hesitant iso-Joe, but because of a stagnant supporting cast as well.

Harry10 · Post #17 » by **Harry10** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 10:32 am

if not Woodson, Avery Johnson would be the next logical move.

evildallas · Post #18 » by **evildallas** » Tue Feb 2, 2010 9:45 pm

Not a big of Avery personally. From what I've heard he's too stifling offensively. Woodson wants to run when the defense can provide the opportunity. Avery has a rep for wanting to micro-manage every trip down the floor and not even running when it's available. I want a winning team, but it helps to be watchable as well.