Pro Iso-Joe Article

[azuresou1]

Can you explain to me what a backscreen is? I'm beginning to think you don't know.

[killbuckner]

If you think that a backscreen works on SOMEONE GUARDING THE BALL then I don't think you know what it is.

A backscreen is used off ball. Its when on the backside of the play you have an offensive player move away from the basket to pick a defensive player. That then allows the guy who was being guarded to cut to the basket.

I have no clue how you think a backscreen would be used effectively on the player guarding the ball. Standing directly behind the defender who is guarding the ball doesn't do anythign to help free the player with the ball as it doesn't impede the defender from moving laterally at all. Thats why when you set a pick for the guy with the ball- you set it to the side of them.

[azuresou1]

A backscreen IS usually used off the ball, that's true. That said, players can and have set great back screens on the on-ball defender that have led to easy baskets.

Case in point, last year Amare caught a pass with his man draped all over him. Steve Nash ran up from behind and set a back screen on the defender. Amare pump faked and drove right. The defender moved with him, but was surprised when he bumped into Nash. Amare had an easy path for a Sportscenter Top 10 dunk because he had already picked up speed and Nash's defender didn't want any part of that. Now, granted it was a PG coming to help and not Dwight, but the point holds that Amare had already picked up his dribble and was already in the air before the help would have gotten there anyways.

A good screener will shade just a little bit to the direction the player will be driving so that they're fully in the way of the defender when the defender drops his foot back to slide with the ball handler.

[evildallas]

I not sure how my comment that Bibby and Crawford will actually try to run a pick and roll play occasionally gets translated to trying to pick up fouls on Dwight Howard. You lost me on that one. If the discussion has morphed to Orlando only, sorry my bad. I know we don't have an offensive option that picks up fouls like Wade, LeBron, or even Corey Maggette. That does hurt us when the shots aren't falling, but has nothing to do with shortcomings of iso-Joe. My point was that Bibby and Crawford can actually cause the defense to react without losing the ball to pressure more often than not (sorry Josh and Marvin). I'm fine with Josh or Al taking a man on the baseline is the floor is spaced, I just don't think they have the ball handling skills to support a pick play with the ball in their hands because it increases the swiping at the ball by adding more defenders in proximity.

[azuresou1]

I was talking about only Orlando. I don't know if kb is talking about Orlando only.

[killbuckner]

I think you are using the term wrong if you are calling that a back screen. I have never heard someone use the term back screen for something on ball. And yeah- having a PG come over and adding a tiny player to help against a PF or C is FAR different from inviting the best help defender in basketball over to help.

[azuresou1]

Just because something isn't done often doesn't mean it's not applicable. Dwight's Superman dunk is a dunk, for instance, because it meets all the technical definitions of the term, but you have people claiming that it's not, just because usually people touch the rim on dunks.

You're missing the point for why I want to run this play. I'm not running it because I want the easiest basket while Dwight is in. I'm running it because I want Dwight off the court ASAP, and I'm willing to have Josh start with 2 TOs, 1 blocked attempt, and 2-4 from the FT line if it means Dwight Howard picks up 3 fouls in the first quarter.

[killbuckner]

As I said- I think you are using the term incorrectly. The play you are talking about is a basic pick and roll. ANd its not going to put the Magic on the defensive. As soon as Horford gets close to Rashard the Magic are just going to jump Josh Smith who is completely incapable of dealing with a doubleteam of 2 guys who are longer than him. And Josh won't have time to react to the double because you were nice enough to invite Howard directly to the ball.

Its not that I don't understand what you are talking about- I just think its a terrible idea.

[azuresou1]

If Shard has eyes on the back of his head and can magically see Al setting a back pick, then props to him. I'm pretty sure, however, that he is indeed human, and that Dwight being human as well, isn't going to teleport next to Josh trapping him instantly.

Josh drives the same time Al moves right behind Shard. Shard backs up into Al, who he isn't expecting, and is momentarily taken out of the play. Dwight, who as someone reacting to a play, will have to run to help a second after Josh has already gone past Shard and has maybe even picked up his dribble. From here, Josh just needs to go up strong and not worry about the inevitable contact.

I ran this play a bunch of times way back in high school as the 4, and I was realistically a pretty terribad player. Now, high school ball and the NBA are obviously worlds apart in terms of skill, but I'm pretty sure at all levels people are still people. And besides, Shard is not exactly a prime KG here in terms of defensive awareness.

[killbuckner]

have fun with your fantasies about highschool plays that once worked. I'll stick to my belief that having Josh Smith and Al Horford run a Pick and Roll against Rashard lewis and Dwight Howard is one of the worst ideas that anyone has ever bothered to waste so many words trying to defend.

[GameOver25]

Killbuckner is correct, Azuresou what you're describing is a pick n roll play.

[Rip2137]

Yeah, thats a 4-5 pick and roll and I think its a pretty horrible idea.

The problem with this teams offense is that Joe doesn't get rid of the ball when he is supposed to. He lets the double come, dribbles away from it before finally shooting or passing...either way, he removes the positive from getting doubled. He allows the other team to rotate to their man.

As for a foul drawer, we have one. He just happens to be the 6th offensive option and has been nothing more than a glorified spot up shooter now. Because of his first step, Marvin Williams is the guy that can get to the line most often as he has proven in the past. Only he is the last guy a play is run for in this offense. Zaza gets more plays run for him.

A realistic fix(because giving Marvinthe ball before Josh, Horford, Bibby, Jamal or joe is not going to happen) would be a 1-2 pick and roll with Bibby and Joe or Crawford and Joe.

You either double the ball(bibby or Jamal) leaving Joe open and he is a great spot up shooter. Or you go under the pick and leave Bibby or Jamal open for the jumper. Or you switch and you have Joe Johnson guarded by a point guard in the post...where you have to double from the top leaving the shooter open or from the weakside leaving the rim open or a shooter at the top of the key if they rotate from the top. Either way, it keeps the ball out of the over dribbler's hands(Joe) and uses his ability to draw doubles and spot up shoot. Plus it gives our guards open looks.