The Josh Smith Argument Thread

[ATL DirtyBird]

I would like to see where people stand on the man we affectionately refer to as "Smoove." Do you love him or hate him? Do you feel that he brings it every night? Does his pouty and inconsitent effort annoy you? I dont know who gets bashed more, Josh, Joe, or Woody, but I would like to get a feel for where everyone stands on this guy.

[gino_giode]

I love him....As a Magics fan...That sequence where he watched the ball bounce about 3 ft away and let Rashard pick it up, and then casually let him dribble in for the uncontested layup was priceless.

[Jamaaliver]

I hate him as a player.
Lazy, indifferent. He his the epitome of what is wrong with the NBA today. He can dunk, but has no other real fundamental skills.

His head and his heart are not in the game.

But he might be the key to getting a top flight player back from another team.

[evildallas]

I love him and am not ready to give up on him. He does some things that are maddening to me, I admit. He's only had one head coach and it is obvious to me that he's tuned him out. He needs a new man in charge that will help him grow up and be the player he can be for Josh's own good and well as the team. That might require some tough love.

Ideal situation for me would be to replace Woodson with either a coach with a grasp of psychology or at least one with authority who commands players' respect. Joe leaves via free agency saving the team from a financial crippling move to remain 3rd or 4th best in the East. Josh is then given clear responsibility to be the leader and challenged to be constant leader by example as well as vocally. If he still goes into these mind funks where his effort sucks then he should be taken out and talked with. If he can't handle the leadership or doesn't grow up then you start shopping him and look to start over.

[JoshB914]

If you think Josh is the heart of our problems then you need to get your head checked. He matured greatly this season on the floor and it's obvious. He shot over 50%, cut down on dumb turnovers, played man defense like he was two years ago, and should have made the all star team. I keep hearing Magic fans like above calling him out for being lazy, and then I look up and he has a double-double and is the only guy trying to make things happen offensively. Meanwhile, Horford gets a free pass for disappearing for the umpteenth time whilst our "star" shoots 3-15 from the floor.

Our "all star" doesn't even give two hoots about the team. At least Smoove is showing some freaking emotion. Maybe sometimes he lets his emotions get the best of him, but I think his breakdowns are a result of the frustration from the listlessness of those around him. At least he cares about the team.

[spadez24]

Sup Hawks fans,

Im an Orlando fan and Im sorry to say this but I'm quite disappointed in the Hawks team and coaching staff. I mean, I saw more heart when y'all played the Celtics in the first round in 2008 and I can see it in your teams body language that y'all gave up. As a basketball fan, I see that as the biggest letdown to your fans and it all starts with Mike Woodson. His nonchalant attitude is the reason why this team isn't succeeding as your team should. I told Atlanta fans from day one, your team needs to play uptempo and the perfect coach to maximize the talent of this team offensively is Mike Fratello. Woody doesnt deserve to be a head coach in the NBA or anywhere for that matter like Mike Brown because they just rely on the teams talent. Joe Johnson is also another piece of the blame of the organization because he went from underrated to overrated after that great displaying in that Boston series and didn't deserve to be on the All-Star team over J-Smoove and the All-NBA third team over Rajon Rondo. Joe Johnson is unmotivated, not a player you build a franchise around and a ball-stopper. He just looks to shoot and in game 2, yall should of won but why you all lost, poor coaching decisions by Woody and Joe Johnson ball hogging. Nevertheless, fire Woody and let Joe go to Chicago, Boston, Cleveland or NY. If Joe goes to NY, he will be booed eventually because to be effective, he has to be the second-fiddle. In my opinion, you all have a great core of Smith and Horford. Build around those two, Josh Smith I do say needs a better outside shot and cannot let the game get to him if he doesnt agree with a call. Im a huge Josh Smith fan and I truly believe that he can be a great player if hes more consistent, get an outside shot and dont let the game get to him. Horford I believe is a good rebounder, defender, jumpshooter, and has a great winning attitude. He needs to work on consistency and is out of position. But this team needs a true center and a PG. Now I believe two trades could possibly help yall.

Trade Marvin Williams, Randolph Morris and a secound round pick for Chris Kaman and Steve Novak. What sets your team apart from being a contender is a three-point shooter, a point guard and pure center. But I am not done, your team needs a real PG.

Also, I would trade Bibby for either of these PGs, Calderon or Tony Parker but for your team- Parker would be a better fit because hes a better leader. Trade Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans and your first round pick for Tony Parker and Roger Mason. With that trade you get a horrible contract off the books and get an All Star PG. San Antonio will find a good player with that pick to rebuild around.

Lineup
PG- Parker/Teague
SG- Crawford/Mason Jr.
SF- Josh Smith/Novak
PF-Horford/Joe Smith
C-Kaman/Pachulia

If everyone is healthy, thats a 55 win team and you will cause matchup problems for many teams. Now you have shooting to open up the paint and this will help Josh Smith's game a lot so more dunks for him. Novak and Mason Jr wont miss those same shot that guys had this playoffs.. Thoughts

[raleigh]

I don't want to move Josh until I see him with a tough coach. Plus, people are always conveniently ignoring the fact he has a trade kicker that will make him far less attractive to other teams.

[HMFFL]

I told Atlanta fans from day one, your team needs to play uptempo and the perfect coach to maximize the talent of this team offensively is Mike Fratello.

Mike plans to keep his tv job.

Trade Marvin Williams, Randolph Morris and a secound round pick for Chris Kaman and Steve Novak. What sets your team apart from being a contender is a three-point shooter, a point guard and pure center. But I am not done, your team needs a real PG.

Randolph Morris and Steve Novak are free agents.

I also doubt the Clippers are going to be open to gift wrapping Chris Kaman to us.

Also, I would trade Bibby for either of these PGs, Calderon or Tony Parker but for your team- Parker would be a better fit because hes a better leader. Trade Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans and your first round pick for Tony Parker and Roger Mason. With that trade you get a horrible contract off the books and get an All Star PG. San Antonio will find a good player with that pick to rebuild around.

Jose Calderon has a terrible contract that I want no part of.

It's wishful thinking on your part if you actually believe Atlanta can acquire Tony Parker with that package. Roger Mason is a free agent and Mo Evans plans to opt out of his contract.

In the future it would help if you researched the players contracts to know the status of their availability.

[evildallas]

Trade Marvin Williams, Randolph Morris and a secound round pick for Chris Kaman and Steve Novak. What sets your team apart from being a contender is a three-point shooter, a point guard and pure center. But I am not done, your team needs a real PG.

Also, I would trade Bibby for either of these PGs, Calderon or Tony Parker but for your team- Parker would be a better fit because hes a better leader. Trade Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans and your first round pick for Tony Parker and Roger Mason. With that trade you get a horrible contract off the books and get an All Star PG. San Antonio will find a good player with that pick to rebuild around.

Lineup
PG- Parker/Teague
SG- Crawford/Mason Jr.
SF- Josh Smith/Novak
PF-Horford/Joe Smith
C-Kaman/Pachulia

If everyone is healthy, thats a 55 win team and you will cause matchup problems for many teams. Now you have shooting to open up the paint and this will help Josh Smith's game a lot so more dunks for him. Novak and Mason Jr wont miss those same shot that guys had this playoffs.. Thoughts

My thoughts is that neither of those trades would happen. Bibby has no trade value until next year when he has value as an expiring. Once PGs lose that step they just aren't desirable other than at the league minimum for leadership in limited minutes. The only hope at Parker or Calderon is as part of a Joe Johnson S&T which means either Joe would want to go there (possible for Spurs) or that those teams really overpay for him (Raptors, maybe, Spurs no way). Evans can opt out as well so it is doubtful we could even trade him. The other deal could have happened in the past, but Kaman had a healthy productive season which means they no longer wish to deal him for cap relief. Marvin's trade value is at a low point as he regressed last season (and a half) after showing promise the first half of 2009. If the Clippers dealt Kaman now they could likely get more from him. However I don't think they are ready to turn C over to DeAndre Jordan full time and want to see their team with all pieces healthy.

As far as you overall plan, it is fine except that Josh would really have to develop certain aspects of his game to play SF and those are probably his weakest points. PG and size at C are two of our most prevalent problems going back years (check the board). We've applied band-aids but we've never solved the problems.

[Skyhawk1]

I hate him more than any other in the entire league.

[aniloman]

Some changes have to be made with regards to handling Josh. I really think he needs some tough love to get the best out of him. Sam Mitchell is the coach I think that would do the job.

[paul]

Some changes have to be made with regards to handling Josh. I really think he needs some tough love to get the best out of him. Sam Mitchell is the coach I think that would do the job.

Scott Skiles would bend him to the point of breaking, with his defensive ability Skiles could turn him into an elite player if he mentally bought in imo.

[dms269]

We need a coach who won't put up with his antics. Josh is only 24, so we need a coach who will sit him down and play tough with him.

[NWO4Life]

Josh is as immature as they come. I blame Woody. I posted on here back in 2005 during Josh's rookie season he and Donta Smith were on the bench just cutting up bull ****, joking, and checking out the girls around the bench. I called Woody and BOTH Smiths out on this board. Donta fired at the end of the season.

5 YEARS later Josh is still a big immature baby with no accountability. Thanks Woody!

Josh is one of the most physically gifted players on the floor every night but there is a reason he was not an All-Star. Like Richard Dumas you can have the physical gifts and never get it right in the head.

Anyway Horford and Bibby are the only quality players that are leaders we have.

The more I write this the more I know Woody needs to go. He might know X's and O's but doesn't know dick about leading by example. To much of a players coach to do the players any justice.

Josh Smith should be a Hawk for years but needs a new adviser make that guidance councilor on the bench.

It's the qualities that AL HORFORD has that made him and All-Star that Josh is missing. Maybe Al will take him under his wing before its to late. Winners get it. Losers don't.

[HoopsGuru25]

Smith had a PER 21 in the regular season and 20 in the playoffs at age 24. He also made 2nd team defense. The only way that he wouldn't be considered a good asset is if his attitude was so bad that he was if he just ruined team chemistry ala Milton Bradley or Stephon Marbury. He's not a leader but people will search for things to get annoyed at when the team isn't playing well.