Al Horford Re-signing Question

SOUP · Post #1 » by **SOUP** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:53 pm

You guys are booked for 49,239,130 of guaranteed contracts next year. Now from what I've read most Hawks fans are saying you guys will resign Horford......

But how?

Thanks in advance.

killbuckner · Post #2 » by **killbuckner** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:50 pm

WIth bird rights the Hawks are allowed to exceed the cap to resign horford.

Some of us think its likely that Crawford will be allowed to leave as an Unrestricted free agent if he gets a significant offer but no one that I know of here thinks that they would let Horford leave.

CAM · Post #3 » by **CAM** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:33 am

I'd say Horford is probably the one piece that Hawks fans are most consistently in favour of keeping/ building around.

As a Hawks fan, I would hope that Management shares the same or a similar view.

SOUP · Post #4 » by **SOUP** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:48 pm

killbuckner wrote:WIth bird rights the Hawks are allowed to exceed the cap to resign horford.

Some of us think its likely that Crawford will be allowed to leave as an Unrestricted free agent if he gets a significant offer but no one that I know of here thinks that they would let Horford leave.

Considering Al will be receiving MAX money, all a team needs to do is offer a front-loaded offer and you guys are in the luxury tax.....

azuresou1 · Post #5 » by **azuresou1** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:27 pm

Methinks you don't know that max salaries change based on NBA tenure.

D21 · Post #6 » by **D21** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:15 pm

SOUP wrote:
killbuckner wrote:WIth bird rights the Hawks are allowed to exceed the cap to resign horford.

Some of us think its likely that Crawford will be allowed to leave as an Unrestricted free agent if he gets a significant offer but no one that I know of here thinks that they would let Horford leave.

Considering Al will be receiving MAX money, all a team needs to do is offer a front-loaded offer and you guys are in the luxury tax.....

The Tax threshold should be at nearly 70M.
That's more than 20M more than the garanteed salaries we ahve.

Even if you make a frontloaded offer, you have to keep rules in minds, and the amount added and paid on the first year is spread on every years of the contract for Luxury Tax purpose.
No way Al can get a 20M first year

TDotRep · Post #7 » by **TDotRep** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:18 am

Al isn't receiving max money.

MaceCase · Post #8 » by **MaceCase** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:19 am

TDotRep wrote:Al isn't receiving max money.

Rudy Gay got 80 mil.....Al is getting the max.

parson · Post #9 » by **parson** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:52 pm

SOUP wrote:
killbuckner wrote:WIth bird rights the Hawks are allowed to exceed the cap to resign horford.

Some of us think its likely that Crawford will be allowed to leave as an Unrestricted free agent if he gets a significant offer but no one that I know of here thinks that they would let Horford leave.

Considering Al will be receiving MAX money, all a team needs to do is offer a front-loaded offer and you guys are in the luxury tax.....

Re-read what he said: we'll let Crawford walk.

Considering Crawford's contract is $10.8 million and Al Horford's is $5.4 million, we've got plenty to use to re-sign Horford AND stay under the cap.

When you argue that someone could front-load a deal with Horford, consider how team-friendly the remainder of his contract would be.

CodyB_ · Post #10 » by **CodyB_** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:02 pm

It states in the Wiretap how the Hawks don't want Horford to test the free agency market. If the Hawks get their wish, they'll more than likely have to throw a fair bit of money at him, at least if he has a smart agent.

D21 · Post #11 » by **D21** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:12 pm

MaceCase wrote:
TDotRep wrote:Al isn't receiving max money.

Rudy Gay got 80 mil.....Al is getting the max.

Why a MEM error would set the market value of any player ?
Take bad example, take good example, and see between both to get a real value.

I hate all these estimations based on bad contracts, or when a player ask for same than a player with same role in another team but without seeing impact on the team and winning, like Crawford asking for Ginobili's salary while not having helped us much more than Flip Murray.

Anyway, ATL seems to want to extend Al now, and not next summer according to AJC

MaceCase · Post #12 » by **MaceCase** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:50 pm

D21 wrote:
MaceCase wrote:
TDotRep wrote:Al isn't receiving max money.

Rudy Gay got 80 mil.....Al is getting the max.

Why a MEM error would set the market value of any player ?
Take bad example, take good example, and see between both to get a real value.

I hate all these estimations based on bad contracts, or when a player ask for same than a player with same role in another team but without seeing impact on the team and winning, like Crawford asking for Ginobili's salary while not having helped us much more than Flip Murray.

Anyway, ATL seems to want to extend Al now, and not next summer according to AJC

Of course there's a difference in Jamal wanting Ginobili money when he doesn't have Ginobili's impact and Gay making more than Al when he doesn't have Al's impact.
The bad example is Gay's 82 mil, the good example is Durant's 85 mil. Split that difference and you are still paying Al 80 mil. I doubt Memphis just dropped that contract in Gay's lap, the market was probably demanding him for close to 80 and Memphis just topped it and I doubt by much. With Al you can expect the same. There are just far too many teams next season that will have cap and a need for a fine PF/C that is also great in the media, his contract WILL be pushed up.

D21 · Post #13 » by **D21** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:46 pm

MaceCase wrote:The bad example is Gay's 82 mil, the good example is Durant's 85 mil. Split that difference and you are still paying Al 80 mil

I was not talking about between bad and good contracts like that.
Just put bad contracts on one side, and forget it, and put good contracts on the other and search in these good contract a fair value.
Durant deserves clearly more than Al, but deserves his contract. Use that to find Al value, and other good contracts even with less impact player but fair contract.

If Durant is getting 85, and deserves it, Al should not get more than 70M for sure.

Tommy Sneakers · Post #14 » by **Tommy Sneakers** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:20 pm

I think the Hawks should be prepared to pay Horf the max if they want to keep him. He should easily get a max deal. He is the best young big available in 2011. Also a max contract for Horford is not even close to as big as what JJ got. It should be very similar to what Durant just got. It starts at $13.6 in 2011-12 and ends at $19.3 in 2015-16. I think that Horford is worth that and I believe at least one team with capspace will agree with me.

Solid · Post #15 » by **Solid** » Wed Sep 8, 2010 10:36 pm

Pacers baby!
Al is our missing piece.
I am a tightwad And I'd give Horford max money if it would pry him away... and guess what - I'd do it even if i knew you'd match.

I don't think you'll have much left after that and Smoove will look pretty awesome in blue and gold.

If I were you guys I'd offer Al close to max soon.
If I were him it would have to be darn close AND I'd have to think you'd get me a decent center. All that may not happen.

Best shot would likely be to trade Smoove for a center soon.

Post #16 » by **dms269** » Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:42 pm

Solid wrote:Pacers baby!
Al is our missing piece.
I am a tightwad And I'd give Horford max money if it would pry him away... and guess what - I'd do it even if i knew you'd match.

I don't think you'll have much left after that and Smoove will look pretty awesome in blue and gold.

If I were you guys I'd offer Al close to max soon.
If I were him it would have to be darn close AND I'd have to think you'd get me a decent center. All that may not happen.

Best shot would likely be to trade Smoove for a center soon.

Atlanta doesn't have to rush with Al. Atlanta can offer what every they want to Al. If he declines then Atlanta knows they will probably have to match a max contract.

Lol at Smith and Blue and Gold. There isn't much that Indiana would truly offer to be able to pull Smith away from Atlanta.

Solid · Post #17 » by **Solid** » Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:59 pm

I would expect a thee way with a wing or two and a draft pick from us and a center from another team. If you want to keep Al get him out of the center.

theatlfan · Post #18 » by **theatlfan** » Thu Sep 9, 2010 2:31 am

Solid wrote:I would expect a thee way with a wing or two and a draft pick from us and a center from another team. If you want to keep Al get him out of the center.

Honestly, if you can figure out a way to land us our pick of 2 prospects between Rush, George, and Hansbrough, a future 1st which would project into the mid-1st, and a decent young C, then that might be a decent deal for one of Smoove or Horford. As far as the C, I'm pretty high on Gortat and I like Biedrins, but I'd guess that others would want no part of either. I'm not sure which others would fit that description and have any possibility of being traded (if even those 2 have the same possibility). Assuming you'd want Horford and get us Gortat while we'd take George and Hansbrough, I'd think a lineup of:
PG - Teague/Bibby
Wings - JJ/Marvin/George/Jo Crawford
Bigs - Smoove/Gortat/Hansbrough/Zaza
would be a nice combination of offense / defense and athleticism / banging. Kick in the future 1st and a little TPE, then we could even have some flexibility for a few upgrades to that core.