A Denver What If -

[Harry10]

Point 4 goes back to Point 2, which is that the ASG is not going to take on Al Harrington's contract while sending out multiple first round picks for a half-season rental of Melo, and Melo is not in any way, shape, or form re-signing in Atlanta. This package would never get offered for MULTIPLE reasons, which already makes it a moot point, and if it was Denver would laugh at the offer when they tell their fans that they traded their franchise superstar for an old washed up PG, some low picks, and cash savings 2-4 years down the line.

funny how you are now back tracking, so now it is the Hawks who won't take the deal

The Hawks cap is the same with Harrington or with Bibby. the cap and ASG argument is moot.

you are obviously an idiot if you think that Denver fans are that dumb. Nuggets fans are smart enough to know that they don't want another Bosh or Lebron situation.

[azuresou1]

I'm an idiot because I realize that just there are trades both teams turn down? Or that Bibby is owed $6 million through next year while Harrington is owed $28 million over the next 4 years?

PS: Your reading comprehension and/or logic is atrocious. Denver turning down a package of Chandler/Fields obviously means they care more about saving money than getting young talent, and not that they don't think much of Chandler/Fields, right?

SMFH.

[azuresou1]

Let me simplify this for you.

Denver is offering Boardwalk/Park Place which may or may not have its hotels remaining depending on which team they are trading with (Melo). Since we are playing an alternate version of Monopoly, they also 'own' a special Water Works which is costing them $20 a turn for the next 4 loops.

NY is offering Atlantic/Marvin Gardens/Ventnor and two railroads as well as $1K cash for Boardwalk/Park Place.
NJ is offering Pennsylvania/Pacific/North Carolina as well as $1K cash for Boardwalk/Park Place.

You are offering Baltic/Mediterranean, a special Electric Company which costs $20 a turn for the next loop, as well as $1K cash for Boardwalk/Park Place and their Water Works.

I think its pretty clear just how terrible and nonsensical your package is to everyone but you. You're more than welcome to post it on the trade board and have some alternate viewpoints, were you'll find that everyone agrees with me.

[evildallas]

^^^ Nice breakdown.

Back on the idea of expirings being more important than young talent . . . the proposed NJ deal and even the rumored Houston rental had elements that reduced or eliminated Denver's luxury tax this year. Merely trading them expiring contracts for Melo doesn't do that as he is essentially already an expiring deal. Ideally Denver wants to save dollars right now (luxury tax savings), reduce future commitments (taking a bad contract like Harrington), and then get pieces to rebuild with if at all possible (picks and players). We can't even offer an a competitive package given their wants.

[HMFFL]

Instead of creating another topic related to Denver I'll just post here.

Nene apparently likes Miami, Dallas, and an unknown team. Rick Sund should explore this to see if we happen to be the unknown team. It don't expect Miami to acquire Nene, but the last thing we need is for them to do it, and we should look at him as a potential player for us anyway.

If the tend continues it won't be us and it'll be a team located in another state that has no state income tax. San Antonio is already dangerous, but even more so if they can acquire him.

[Harry10]

^^^ Nice breakdown.

Back on the idea of expirings being more important than young talent . . . the proposed NJ deal and even the rumored Houston rental had elements that reduced or eliminated Denver's luxury tax this year. Merely trading them expiring contracts for Melo doesn't do that as he is essentially already an expiring deal. Ideally Denver wants to save dollars right now (luxury tax savings), reduce future commitments (taking a bad contract like Harrington), and then get pieces to rebuild with if at all possible (picks and players). We can't even offer an a competitive package given their wants.

exactly! i'm glad everybody is coming around and finally seeing it logically. with the uncertainty of resigning Melo, that takes away the Nuggets ability to get young players or high draft picks.

with NYC and NJN now off the table, that takes away the Nuggets ability to get luxury tax savings right now.

so that only leaves reduce future commitments.

since all the conditions have been layed out, alot of options have been thrown out. so if you look at ever team in the NBA, their assets, current position, the players and their contracts, that only leaves the Hawks, Jazz, and Bucks who would be able to give the Nuggets the best deal.

Nuggets can make a trade, or end up like Toronto or Cleveland, with no Bosh and Lebron (and picks), and stuck with a bad contact like Turkoglu or Jamison

[azuresou1]

You realize he just agreed with me, right?

Denver is not trading Boardwalk/Park Place for Baltic/Mediterranean and swapping a liability for a slightly better liability when they can trade Boardwalk/Park Place for Atlantic/Ventnor/Marvin and two railroads, and then figure out someone else to take on their liability.

[evildallas]

I went back and read Harry's plan again and I understand what he's saying. By agreeing to take on Harrington's bad contract for next year of Bibby's deal and a pick, we would swap expiring deals of Anthony for Crawford and Evans. Denver saves money now ($4M) and in the future (3 yrs of Harrington) and we get one run with Carmelo and the chance to convince him to stay for a max extension. It's a bold gambit and one that could easily backfire. The big problems I see is that it leaves us without a PG as our 2 best are dealt in the move and that outside of Carmelo we'd have over $35M tied up in 4 forwards (Josh, Al Horford, Marvin, and Al Harrington).

It may sell some tickets and Carmelo is more likely to be successful as primary scorer in the post-season (by extension making Joe more effective as the 2nd option), but I'd have to pass on the idea as the risk is far greater than the reward unless you have a 3rd team to work into the trade to gain a PG. BTW, Houston could still make a better offer because they could absorb more salary this year. I will stop arguing that we can't make an offer and just move to a position of the trade would leave us too weak and unbalanced. That is unless you think we can play Joe at the 1, Melo at the 2, Josh at the 3, Al at the 4, and our platoon at C of Jason Collins, Zaza, and Etan. It would be interestingly unconventional.

[theatlfan]

Instead of creating another topic related to Denver I'll just post here.

Nene apparently likes Miami, Dallas, and an unknown team. Rick Sund should explore this to see if we happen to be the unknown team. It don't expect Miami to acquire Nene, but the last thing we need is for them to do it, and we should look at him as a potential player for us anyway.

If the tend continues it won't be us and it'll be a team located in another state that has no state income tax. San Antonio is already dangerous, but even more so if they can acquire him.

Ah... the dreaded "unknown team". I guess it's a good way to put your name in the headlines of 30 major cities...

My guess is that the tread is toward teams that have a good play for a championship with a good C... which would leave about 10 more teams to consider. Even teams with seemingly settled big rotations could make a play for him as an upgrade. I'd like to make a play, but I couldn't see us prying him away for JC1 and/or Marvin + picks/prospects - hence, we'd have to include Smoove. I think that if we're in the market for a C right now, then we'd be looking to compliment what we've got - not reorg the roster. It's a nice dream, but I think we're out.

One interesting scenario would be LAL. LAL could troll for an upgrade and put Bynum in play for him. Nene would be an upgrade and I think he'd fit well with Gasol - plus LAL gets to dump the rest of Bynum's contract. DEN might prefer the "Bird in the Hand" when discussing C's and might be willing to risk Bynum's salary to ensure they've got one. LAL could also use their TPE to take an unwanted salary (Balkman?) and add some sweetener in future picks - which would be even sweeter since LAL couldn't deal one until 2013, after Nene's contract is up and Kobe is 2 years older.

[evildallas]

A lot of people like the idea of playing in Miami until the salary rules come into play and they realize how much less they'd make. I don't think Nene is ready to sign for the MLE (if it still exists in the next CBA).

[Harry10]

I went back and read Harry's plan again and I understand what he's saying. By agreeing to take on Harrington's bad contract for next year of Bibby's deal and a pick, we would swap expiring deals of Anthony for Crawford and Evans. Denver saves money now ($4M) and in the future (3 yrs of Harrington) and we get one run with Carmelo and the chance to convince him to stay for a max extension. It's a bold gambit and one that could easily backfire. The big problems I see is that it leaves us without a PG as our 2 best are dealt in the move and that outside of Carmelo we'd have over $35M tied up in 4 forwards (Josh, Al Horford, Marvin, and Al Harrington).

It may sell some tickets and Carmelo is more likely to be successful as primary scorer in the post-season (by extension making Joe more effective as the 2nd option), but I'd have to pass on the idea as the risk is far greater than the reward unless you have a 3rd team to work into the trade to gain a PG. BTW, Houston could still make a better offer because they could absorb more salary this year. I will stop arguing that we can't make an offer and just move to a position of the trade would leave us too weak and unbalanced. That is unless you think we can play Joe at the 1, Melo at the 2, Josh at the 3, Al at the 4, and our platoon at C of Jason Collins, Zaza, and Etan. It would be interestingly unconventional.

with that much star power, i'm okay with Teague and Jordan at point. we just need them to turn into Fisher or rookie Rondo, which is play lock down defense, give energy, and hit wide open shots.

i would actually go with the line up of:

Horford/Collins/Zaza
Josh/Pow
Melo/Harrington
Joe/Marvin/Wilkins
Teague/Jordan

not going to ask Teague to score or create, just play defense, so he will be a big improvement over Bibby in regards to guarding Rondo, Rose, and Nelson, whild Melo and Joe making up for the scoring

Horford and Josh have already shown that they can dominate the Heat's frontcourt, hopefully Melo and Joe can hold off Lebron and Wade enough to tip the scales.

again, the Hawks loose very little because Crawford is most likely gone next year anyway. you talk about being worried about losing two PGs, but really, what is the point to having Bibby and Crawford, when the current line up will not get pass the Heat and Celtics, atleast Horford/Josh/Melo/Joe/Teague has a legit chance at getting pass the Heat and Celtics.

[D21]

Interesting idea, but I am afraid that even with Teague playing good defense, we could not be better overall than with Bibby/Crawford/Joe/Josh/Al

Bibby is, and especially this year, the one who stretch the floor, and with this %FG, the opponents have to ready to loose 3pts if they leave him.
If Teague can't hit 3s on a regular basis, the other guys won't be so easy on offensive end.

If Teague can't make it works, Anthony won't re-sign here for sure, so we are back to Joe at PG, unless we find one for the MLE, or with some trades next summer (we would be around the salary cap in 2011-12 with this roster).

Maybe I would gamble on it, but not sure it would work.
And the "best" could still come : it works, we are not swept in second round and even play in ECF or more, but ASG doesn't want to pay LT, and only can offer 10M to Anthony because we only have 10M under the LT threshold.
He walks away, while it worked. I think I would stop following the Hawks for at least some years in this case.

[Harry10]

Interesting idea, but I am afraid that even with Teague playing good defense, we could not be better overall than with Bibby/Crawford/Joe/Josh/Al

Bibby is, and especially this year, the one who stretch the floor, and with this %FG, the opponents have to ready to loose 3pts if they leave him.
If Teague can't hit 3s on a regular basis, the other guys won't be so easy on offensive end.

If Teague can't make it works, Anthony won't re-sign here for sure, so we are back to Joe at PG, unless we find one for the MLE, or with some trades next summer (we would be around the salary cap in 2011-12 with this roster).

Maybe I would gamble on it, but not sure it would work.
And the "best" could still come : it works, we are not swept in second round and even play in ECF or more, but ASG doesn't want to pay LT, and only can offer 10M to Anthony because we only have 10M under the LT threshold.
He walks away, while it worked. I think I would stop following the Hawks for at least some years in this case.

the year that the Celtics won the championship, Rondo only shot .263FG% from three, and averaged 6.1 assist per game.