Josh Smith

[Ruhiel]

I would rather move josh smith than horford and try to shift horford to the 4. I'm not too big on josh smith, he's a good help defender, I don't really consider his man defense at the 4 special, and he' doesn't have the quickness to stay with the better 3s in this league. I haven't seen marked improvement or evolution in his offensive game either throughout the years, I think he's at his peak as a player and the wear/injuries will only accumulate from now on.

1) Nor do they (ie Paul Pierce) (Carmelo) (Deng) have the adequate strength and speed to guard him when he has good position to make some pivot moves in the post or on the short corner. Positioning is key for any offensive player. When Josh was lighter I felt he found his niche as a speed player, who could back you down (1 dribble and up) but now the speed is gone, his game is limited to set jumpers.

I remember the CLE series Lebron wasn't able to guard him (albeit most times were on switch outs), and LBJ was hacking, Smith was showing out against LBJ's team despite this. His pull up jumper was working. Josh can play the 3, if he loses weight.
2) On the fast break, when he's slimmer he's very similar to Carmelo in that if he leaks out its a automatic 2 or a foul. He needs to find balance in leaks and crashing boards. But its hard to leak out when ure other 2 "bigs" are Marvin and Horford. A slimmer Josh would excel at the 3 with more Offensive Awareness, which comes with practice, and a good passer to find him.

[bigbreakfast]

I would rather move josh smith than horford and try to shift horford to the 4. I'm not too big on josh smith, he's a good help defender, I don't really consider his man defense at the 4 special, and he' doesn't have the quickness to stay with the better 3s in this league. I haven't seen marked improvement or evolution in his offensive game either throughout the years, I think he's at his peak as a player and the wear/injuries will only accumulate from now on.

1) Nor do they (ie Paul Pierce) (Carmelo) (Deng) have the adequate strength and speed to guard him when he has good position to make some pivot moves in the post or on the short corner. Positioning is key for any offensive player. When Josh was lighter I felt he found his niche as a speed player, who could back you down (1 dribble and up) but now the speed is gone, his game is limited to set jumpers.

I remember the CLE series Lebron wasn't able to guard him (albeit most times were on switch outs), and LBJ was hacking, Smith was showing out against LBJ's team despite this. His pull up jumper was working. Josh can play the 3, if he loses weight.
2) On the fast break, when he's slimmer he's very similar to Carmelo in that if he leaks out its a automatic 2 or a foul. He needs to find balance in leaks and crashing boards. But its hard to leak out when ure other 2 "bigs" are Marvin and Horford. A slimmer Josh would excel at the 3 with more Offensive Awareness, which comes with practice, and a good passer to find him.

1) I don't think smoove has the dribbles and shooting to consistently be a threat from the SF position. he does have the advantage of size and strength over other SFs in the post, but teams can put a 4 on him.

2) I should clarify, jsmoove CAN make improvements, I just don't think they will be major ones that change how he is as a player, ie, I don't think he'll ever be a good outside shooter or a great ball handler. Well yea, a good passer will help everyone on the hawks.

I'm not taking digs at jsmoove, but I don't think he'll ever be the game changer ppl hope him to be. at the end of the day he does many things well but seems to lack a consistent niche, with this team I'd rather keep horford and move smoove and search for a real big and move horford to the 4.

[Ruhiel]

1) I don't think smoove has the dribbles and shooting to consistently be a threat from the SF position. he does have the advantage of size and strength over other SFs in the post, but teams can put a 4 on him.

that's called a mismatch. That means the 3 is probably guarding our 4 or 5.
Moving Smoove or Horford would be idiotic and further take us out of contention for 2012 FA. Joe Johnson is the one to be moved. It wasn't obvious that his style is stunting the player's growth it should be obvious now. :0

[bigbreakfast]

1) I don't think smoove has the dribbles and shooting to consistently be a threat from the SF position. he does have the advantage of size and strength over other SFs in the post, but teams can put a 4 on him.

that's called a mismatch. That means the 3 is probably guarding our 4 or 5.
Moving Smoove or Horford would be idiotic and further take us out of contention for 2012 FA. Joe Johnson is the one to be moved. It wasn't obvious that his style is stunting the player's growth it should be obvious now. :0

the hawks don't really have personnel outside of horford to exploit that mistmatch, (horford already has to handle the other team's 5 and is sometimes overmatched). I don't think teams are shaking in their nikes about the potential cross matches.

well, i'd rather move JJ too, not sure if it's going to happen. Between horford and smith, I'd much rather move smith and find a real center to compliment horford.

edit: and I think the hawks can get something of value in return for smith.

[Geaux_Hawks]

1) I don't think smoove has the dribbles and shooting to consistently be a threat from the SF position. he does have the advantage of size and strength over other SFs in the post, but teams can put a 4 on him.

that's called a mismatch. That means the 3 is probably guarding our 4 or 5.
Moving Smoove or Horford would be idiotic and further take us out of contention for 2012 FA. Joe Johnson is the one to be moved. It wasn't obvious that his style is stunting the player's growth it should be obvious now. :0

the hawks don't really have personnel outside of horford to exploit that mistmatch, (horford already has to handle the other team's 5 and is sometimes overmatched). I don't think teams are shaking in their nikes about the potential cross matches.

well, i'd rather move JJ too, not sure if it's going to happen. Between horford and smith, I'd much rather move smith and find a real center to compliment horford.

edit: and I think the hawks can get something of value in return for smith.

If you are going to compliment Horford while he plays the 4, then you would need a guy who can defend the "Paint" PERIOD, can produce offensively in the low post, and of course, rebound, but thats if you are trading Josh. Guys I think fill that position are something like Bogut, Howard, Jefferson,Bynum, Okafor,Hibbert,Marc and Pau. Yeah, all those looks expensive(In a trade),not even worth getting or not available.

Now if you would rather trade Marvin & Zaza, then you could just take a decent rebounder; that can block some shots either as a help defender or with the help of other defenders; and has an offensive skill, like PnR; perimeter/mid range shooting; or just good offensive intangibles, even just garbage bucket, then that would be more like getting Darko(defensive presence alone),Kaman, Bargnani,Beidrins,Asik,Okur. Sounds like we need at least a Euro big to compliment both Horford and Smith LOL.

Me personally, would rather keep Josh and take option 2 and try to trade Zaza+ filler for either Darko, Spencer Hawes, Cole Aldrich, Kosta Koufous, Robin Lopez., or Biedrins; then trade Marvin + filler for Bargnani, Kaman, Okur.

When Josh is hitting from mid-range/perimeter, he can look like an Elite 3/4 tweener(Think Melo lite). He really needs to just lose about 5-10 pounds so he can keep enough muscle to bang as a 4, but regain the quickness to excel over other 3's, which is pretty much around Melo size(6'8 230). If you want to trade a guy who looks like your best all around player, just because of him complaining about a foul(doesn't cost us techs) and has a bad, boneheaded shot selection from time to time(still manages about 15-17 PPG with a streaky mid range) then more power to you.

[parson]

Blocking shots does not mean you can "defend the paint." We really have no one to do that but Horford comes the closest. Smoove is a weakside shot blocker. When you see Carlos Boozer backing Smoove down in the middle, you know Smoove does not defend the paint.

[bigbreakfast]

If you are going to compliment Horford while he plays the 4, then you would need a guy who can defend the "Paint" PERIOD, can produce offensively in the low post, and of course, rebound, but thats if you are trading Josh. Guys I think fill that position are something like Bogut, Howard, Jefferson,Bynum, Okafor,Hibbert,Marc and Pau. Yeah, all those looks expensive(In a trade),not even worth getting or not available.

Now if you would rather trade Marvin & Zaza, then you could just take a decent rebounder; that can block some shots either as a help defender or with the help of other defenders; and has an offensive skill, like PnR; perimeter/mid range shooting; or just good offensive intangibles, even just garbage bucket, then that would be more like getting Darko(defensive presence alone),Kaman, Bargnani,Beidrins,Asik,Okur. Sounds like we need at least a Euro big to compliment both Horford and Smith LOL.

Me personally, would rather keep Josh and take option 2 and try to trade Zaza+ filler for either Darko, Spencer Hawes, Cole Aldrich, Kosta Koufous, Robin Lopez., or Biedrins; then trade Marvin + filler for Bargnani, Kaman, Okur.

When Josh is hitting from mid-range/perimeter, he can look like an Elite 3/4 tweener(Think Melo lite). He really needs to just lose about 5-10 pounds so he can keep enough muscle to bang as a 4, but regain the quickness to excel over other 3's, which is pretty much around Melo size(6'8 230). If you want to trade a guy who looks like your best all around player, just because of him complaining about a foul(doesn't cost us techs) and has a bad, boneheaded shot selection from time to time(still manages about 15-17 PPG with a streaky mid range) then more power to you.

there's your operative phrase. a lot of players will look really good if they're consistently hitting that shot. he's never been able to hit that shot consistently even when teams give him that shot, when he catches on the perimeter the other team's players can't run away from him fast enough. I think it's unlikely he'll make a major improvement in that area after 6 or 7years in the league. Just my 2 cents.

[Geaux_Hawks]

When Josh is hitting from mid-range/perimeter, he can look like an Elite 3/4 tweener(Think Melo lite). He really needs to just lose about 5-10 pounds so he can keep enough muscle to bang as a 4, but regain the quickness to excel over other 3's, which is pretty much around Melo size(6'8 230). If you want to trade a guy who looks like your best all around player, just because of him complaining about a foul(doesn't cost us techs) and has a bad, boneheaded shot selection from time to time(still manages about 15-17 PPG with a streaky mid range) then more power to you.

there's your operative phrase. a lot of players will look really good if they're consistently hitting that shot. he's never been able to hit that shot consistently even when teams give him that shot, when he catches on the perimeter the other team's players can't run away from him fast enough. I think it's unlikely he'll make a major improvement in that area after 6 or 7years in the league. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]


He has made a big improvement this year than over the past years, so I don't see how you can say he won't make anymore in your opinion.Josh didn't come into the league as a jump shooter, and really wasn't asked to be one. Now LD's system is forcing him to do, while barely even thinking about taking such shots last year. He isn't great, true enough, but he will get better. Will he be automatic from mid range or beyond? Well no, but I don't see Horford making 80%. Will he be more consistent? I believe so. The last time he shot 150+ 3 pointers, he shot 25%. This year he once was shooting close to 35% and now down to about 33%. Mid range will definitely be more consistent way before 6-7 years get here..Maybe even with in the next 3 years, but as long as his PPG is up, take as long as he wants.

If Horford is our best guy to defend the paint then how in the hell did Ginobilli score so easily off easy lay ups?? Maybe I should have said defensive presence instead, but Isn't shot blocking in general considered something as defending the painted area?!?Who blocks a jump shot on the perimeter straight up on a consistent basis?!?And then you say he is only a weak side blocker?!? Josh blocked plenty of guards shot who try him one on one and some forwards. Sure preventing guys from even entering the painted area is helpful, but everybody isn't capable of doing so all the time, so if all else fails then at least the shot blocker is over on the weak side of the paint. If he is outside the paint then how do you expect him to block the shot from the weak side? Oh wait maybe we should call him a "Rim Protector" then.

How do you expect Josh to hold his own ground against a 266 pound guy with muscle as well?!?! I expect Josh to be backed down. It's not like Horford does better when against Nene. I'm not one of the fans that think Horford or anyone else is competition to Josh(still wondering what you mean by competition for guys on the same team and starting lineup), but I am one, who will defend him when people think he is the reason we lose. Maybe they will continue to blame him when he finally gets traded away and later comes back and have big games against us. Oh wait, you wouldn't have no choice then. If anything we should keep both and trade anyone else. Some of you sound like Chicago fans.

[johnny878]

Blocking shots does not mean you can "defend the paint." We really have no one to do that but Horford comes the closest. Smoove is a weakside shot blocker. When you see Carlos Boozer backing Smoove down in the middle, you know Smoove does not defend the paint.

please, everytime smooth goes out. the other teams guards have a field day driving to the hoop. Smith is the only semblance of a defensive presence the hawks have in their frontcourt. If you watch the games, you actually see the other teams driving players hesitate and look for smith when going to the hoop. Whereas Al gets as much respect as a two dollar whore when you are out of two dollar bills.

[myrak433]

the last three games solidified it for me, we cannot under any circumstance, trade Smoove. unless it is for a supper star type player.