Atlanta Hawks (11-4) vs Philadelphia 76ers (10-4)

[SAUCERY_SWEET]

I agree with Drew, what's with this team's demeanor coming out of halves?? This has been an on going problem for a couple or 3 years now. They completely became despondent when Philly amped it up a notch and really did look by the body language that they conceded this game and said the heck with it, let's go get Cleveland at home.
By the way the Cavs suffered their largest margin loss at home(39) points to the Bulls who were without D.Rose.

[Rip2137]

Elton Brand: power forward 16 boards
Josh Smith: small forward 5-15 shooting

I wont even go into whatever Collins, Marvin did. Marvin has no ideal position and Collins ideally is an injured reserve.

It seems we're always trying to go against the natural order of basketball and we always get f***d.

So when Josh gets 16 boards is he a PF that night.

I don't see how some of you can be fans of anything because apparently the only way you don't suck is to win every game and none of the players ever have a bad game. While that might be wonderful in video game land, this is real life.

I think drew should have gone to Ivan Johnson just to give the team energy and rode Teague a lil longer in the third (Pargo bis just horrible) but at the end of the day, there are going to be games where you aren't great. This was one of those nights. Brand murdered ZaZa on the boards and I think he would have had trouble with a quicker guy. Josh's jumper was off and Joes turnovers hurt.

[Superiorblogman]

You insulted yourself and showed your BBIQ by your comments.

Yea, maybe I should just be negative and point out every tiny mistake from every game we have, and then when someone disagrees I should just insult them instead of having a nice debate, this website was made for the sake of healthy Sports debates by the way; I've sat back and watched you insult almost every member of this board and I'm seriously sick of it. I know your kind, you're the type of person who aims low and pulls every dirty trick in the book, I've dealt with your kind all my life and I know that if I stoop to your level then I've already lost, so I'm done here. BTW If you don't like my threads then make your own, no one's forcing you to be a part of the thread.

I know your kind also. Needs to feel important so gets upset when he makes a thread and someone else has already made one. Tries to get others on his side by making over the top claims such as someone insulting almost everyone. Just pure silliness. Healthy basketball discussion is calling it like it is. Not always making excuses for Joe and Larry Drew. Joe sucked and Larry killed the teams mojo by insisting on going to him to start that 3rd and I saw it coming a mile away and called it. Then you guys come here and make excuses. Once again, if you can't take it don't dish it out. You guys run around all day everyday insulting players claiming they have low BBIQ's then you show that yours horrible. Quit dishing out words like IQ, which is short for intelligence if you can' take it.[/quote]
I was actually blaming LD for the loss for not putting Ivan in or calling a timeout during the philly run, and it's not an over the top claim, it's really true; most people on this board have been insulted by you, I'm just trying to put a stop to it.[/quote]

I have never insulted anyone on here. If you feel insulted that's your fault. If you and others can question players IQ's why can't I question yours? How do you know they don't read this stuff but just brush it off? I am not insulting anyone you are just soft. Lastly, putting Ivan in was not the move that needed to be made because this had nothing to do with energy. Just because you have heard the same song about energy for over a season from LD now does not mean that is always the problem. What else was Ivan going to bring? The right move was to not try and fix something that was not broke. They should not have tried to get Joe off at the start of the 3rd and they would have won. I am done with this thread it is just redundant at this point. Too many low BBIQ's around here.

[ATL Boy]

You insulted yourself and showed your BBIQ by your comments.

Yea, maybe I should just be negative and point out every tiny mistake from every game we have, and then when someone disagrees I should just insult them instead of having a nice debate, this website was made for the sake of healthy Sports debates by the way; I've sat back and watched you insult almost every member of this board and I'm seriously sick of it. I know your kind, you're the type of person who aims low and pulls every dirty trick in the book, I've dealt with your kind all my life and I know that if I stoop to your level then I've already lost, so I'm done here. BTW If you don't like my threads then make your own, no one's forcing you to be a part of the thread.

I know your kind also. Needs to feel important so gets upset when he makes a thread and someone else has already made one. Tries to get others on his side by making over the top claims such as someone insulting almost everyone. Just pure silliness. Healthy basketball discussion is calling it like it is. Not always making excuses for Joe and Larry Drew. Joe sucked and Larry killed the teams mojo by insisting on going to him to start that 3rd and I saw it coming a mile away and called it. Then you guys come here and make excuses. Once again, if you can't take it don't dish it out. You guys run around all day everyday insulting players claiming they have low BBIQ's then you show that yours horrible. Quit dishing out words like IQ, which is short for intelligence if you can' take it.

I was actually blaming LD for the loss for not putting Ivan in or calling a timeout during the philly run, and it's not an over the top claim, it's really true; most people on this board have been insulted by you, I'm just trying to put a stop to it.[/quote]

I have never insulted anyone on here. If you feel insulted that's your fault. If you and others can question players IQ's why can't I question yours? How do you know they don't read this stuff but just brush it off? I am not insulting anyone you are just soft. Lastly, putting Ivan in was not the move that needed to be made because this had nothing to do with energy. Just because you have heard the same song about energy for over a season from LD now does not mean that is always the problem. What else was Ivan going to bring? The right move was to not try and fix something that was not broke. They should not have tried to get Joe off at the start of the 3rd and they would have won. I am done with this thread it is just redundant at this point. Too many low BBIQ's around here.[/quote]
In this entire discussion I haven't said the word IQ at all, that was all you. And no I'm not soft, get over yourself.

[ATL Boy]

But whatever think whatever tf you want, it makes no difference to me.

[Rip2137]

But they did break it in the third and needed to stop the bleeding.

Ivan has shown great ability at on the ball D, blocking out, and using his quickness to get to rebounds. Brand killing Vlad and ZaZa on the boards and Young killing guys in the paint means some physicality in there.

Don't get me wrong, if others are playing well I have no problem with Ivan "big Mario West" Johnson not playing, but tonight they actually needed what he excels at. It was a 7 point game going into the 4th. Very winnable game.

[Rip2137]

I personally hate when people go with that lame "you have a low BBIQ" when people disagree with them. 9 times out of 10 that person doesn't have the slightest idea what the hell they are talking about.

Its basketball. Its about adjustments and adjustments to adjustments. So they killed the offense trying to get Joe going at the start of the 3rd, they had to adjust after that. The proper adjustment would have been playing Ivan at the 5(creating a mismatch no matter where they played him and having a better closeout on the jumpshooters) and more offensive movement to get Willie Green more involved. You don't lose a NBA Game with just 5 minutes in the third, they weathered the storm, but then didn't make the proper adjustments to get the momentum back.

[Ruhiel]

Elton Brand: power forward 16 boards
Josh Smith: small forward 5-15 shooting

I wont even go into whatever Collins, Marvin did. Marvin has no ideal position and Collins ideally is an injured reserve.

It seems we're always trying to go against the natural order of basketball and we always get f***d.

So when Josh gets 16 boards is he a PF that night.

No he's getting help on the boards. Who's helping him? Weak competition? a center boxing out so he can pursue the rock.

The point of small ball is to use perimeter skills to beat bigger men.

Was the gameplan for Josh Smith's perimeter skills to beat Elton Brand's defense?
Hawks were beat up on the boards.

Well now we know why we lost.

If the Atlanta Hawks ever want to be elite they need to go big to enhance Smith's post game.




And Marvin Williams was faced with Jodie Meeks. For years we have yet to add another competent size forward.

Rasheed Wallace might be old but 3 years ago he would have been perfect. Inside and out game. Pick and rolls with the forwards and collapse the defense.

To let Smith's responsibilities change to what they he should be.


But Marvin and Josh are not working. Josh can be elite against elite competition but realistically it can't be with another Small Forward. You need a Brian Cardinal not Marvin Williams.
- threat to shoot 3 (Marvin Fails)
- chased off line = pull up jumper (Marvin Fails)
- post up a switch (Marvin vs Meeks #Fails)


We're literally playing 3 on 5. And with no post games. On NBA TV Sam Mitchell is saying on Minnesota "Let the talent determine who stays".

Josh Smith and Joe Johnson is the best you get at the wings bigs.

Iguodala and Jodie Meeks vs Joe Johnson and Josh Smith is what should have been.

Only post up SF available that is better than Smith is Paul Pierce.

So dont bank on an SF. Bank on a PF. Marvin Williams needs to leave for a stretch PF who can post up.
He's terrible and inexcusable.


The key to winning titles is the post game. I dont care how many rebounds and points Smith dropped on Ed Davis Amir Johnson and Linas Kleiza.

If you want Smith to play smart, sound basketball, you got to replace Marvin.

[baseline33]

Iggs has just been getting the best of Joe the last two years.

the Hawks got lazy and stopped running in the second half, but regardless of that, Iggy on Joe is still a hard match up.

basketball is all about match ups.

the Bulls are better than the Sixers, but with Iggy's defense, the Sixers match up better to the Hawks, than the Bulls

i see the Hawks sweeping the Bulls in a series, but i see the Hawks having a harder time against Sixers in a series.

[baseline33]

^^^ the whole Josh going for 5-15 shooting is total BS!

if you watched the game, you would see that Josh was hitting his outside jumpshots, but he was missing all his shots in the paint, because for some reason, their was very little motion when Josh took the ball inside and the spacing was horrible.

if anything, Josh was killing it from outside when he was spotting up for a set shot. if i was Drew i would have told Josh to stay on the outside and shoot more of those set shots and tell Teague and TMac to keep pounding it inside.

[Ruhiel]

T-Mac can't pound it inside, as in post up. And Iso Teague wound up with jump shots. You cannot win without putting guys where they can display a post game.

Its crazy.

[FCNATL85]

Also surprised that we did not use Ivan more on Brand. He should have played more against Love, but even missed more PT last night.
as soon as he comes in, with both guys, he breaks down plays, kind of throw then off their rythmn but played only 4 last night.
Hum...

[SAUCERY_SWEET]

We became a bunch of jumpshooters in that 3rd quarter and they stop going in because of the increased pressure from Philly. This is not anything new, the Hawks failed to make the necessary adjustments to counter Philly's obvious increased intensity on defense and it resulted in a 2nd half beat down. We've seen this movie multiple times, didn't Portland come out of the locker room 12 -2 on us??

The turnovers came into play and Zaza and Collins/Josh got bullied on the back boards by Brand/Vucevic and etc..... Drew could have definitely put in Ivan but for some reason didn't, a lot of blame goes around but it's over and done with. Philly is good but the trend continues even against lesser teams that are not able to complete the deal like they did.

[parson]

^^^ the whole Josh going for 5-15 shooting is total BS!

if you watched the game, you would see that Josh was hitting his outside jumpshots, but he was missing all his shots in the paint, because for some reason, their was very little motion when Josh took the ball inside and the spacing was horrible.

if anything, Josh was killing it from outside when he was spotting up for a set shot. if i was Drew i would have told Josh to stay on the outside and shoot more of those set shots and tell Teague and TMac to keep pounding it inside.

Check out ESPN's shot chart of the game. They have him hitting 3 of 11 from outside, 2 for 2 in the paint and 0 for 2 in what looks like one step outside of the paint.

Technically, that makes him 3 for 13 outside of the paint and 2 for 2 in the paint.

link: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart ... =320120020

[Ruhiel]

Espn has human statisticians so they can be prone to error. IE put down a driving paint attempt that as a outside jumper or an assist that did not occur to pad stats.

I've matched video to their play by play before so yeah...

Smith was not killing from outside. But I remember saying him to drive the ball and twice it ended in an off balance brick and a steal. I see why he takes those set shots. He still did not improve shooting off the dribble.

But yeah it was not like he had anything going inside against Elton or Vucevic. And he was definitely not 2 for 2 in the paint.