Props to Mike Woodson

[monsterblock]

hey, props to Woody. he gets lot of crap from everybody in the Hawks board and everybody else around the NBA, but now a days, nobody likes to mention when somebody is doing good, we only like picking on people when they are doing bad, but Woody has been great since taking over the Knicks, going 7-1.

Dumars has always wanted Woodson back with the Pistons for a couple of years now, and maybe he has a point. im also starting to think that Woodson deserves the Lakers' job more than Mike Brown.

[theatlfan]

Yeah, we tend to ignore it, but he actually did quite well here. Sure, there are specific points that we can all point to that would p!ss us off and he might have stayed on a year too long, but that'll always happen when it's someone else's plan and not ours. But what he did do is take an absolutely pathetic team when he came on board, got them to ignore any FO issues that have chopped down other teams, and got them to continually progress to the point we were (and still are) a 2nd tier Eastern Conference team. Considering what could have been (and, considering the issues such as the owners suing each other in court, what might - and possibly should - have been), he actually did very, very well here.

[Rip2137]

I will pick on him while he is doing well. He still is a sucky coach that still goes to Iso plays (if they work or not) repeatedly as soon as he gets a lead. He still is playing that stupid "switch everything" defense.

More often than not, after a team makes a coaching change, the team wins because they are seeing a change in philosophy. Amare and Carmelo are playing defense, Woody isn't pulling guys for taking horrible shots...all is right in the world.

But Lin is hurt which allows him to get Bibby and Douglas some minutes(which he has been itching to do) Amare Stoudimire, and this is from a Suns fan, plays defense every once in a while to show that he could do it. He did it for Johnson, D'Antoni, Porter,and he did it for Gentry...then he stopped playing D for both of them just like he will do with Woodson.

After watching Tyrone Corbins substitution patterns the other night, I do question my "worse coach" thing but thats a small sample. From the day he got here to the day he left, Woodson still stands tall as the worse coach I ever watched consistantly.

He has done a fine job over the past couple of weeks. I still have no confidence in him to get it done any longer than a couple of weeks. D'Antoni is still twice the coach, only a couple of key players are giving more effort defensively.

[moocow007]

D'Antoni is great if he has the perfect players for his team and a superstar PG running things. Without that, he's terrible. He holds no one accountable (he said that his job is not, I repeat NOT, to police the players), he doesn't know defense if it hit him between the eyes after calling him ahead of time to warn him and he makes the absolute worse adjustments in game I've ever seen (and I've been watching games since the early 70's and have seen some gosh awful head coaches in that regards). There's a reason why the Suns team was doing better than his Knicks team despite having probably one of the least talented rosters in the NBA and it's the same reason that he did so well in Phoenix...Steve Nash.

[Rip2137]

D'Antoni is great if he has the perfect players for his team and a superstar PG running things. Without that, he's terrible. He holds no one accountable (he said that his job is not, I repeat NOT, to police the players), he doesn't know defense if it hit him between the eyes after calling him ahead of time to warn him and he makes the absolute worse adjustments in game I've ever seen (and I've been watching games since the early 70's and have seen some gosh awful head coaches in that regards). There's a reason why the Suns team was doing better than his Knicks team despite having probably one of the least talented rosters in the NBA and it's the same reason that he did so well in Phoenix...Steve Nash.

That Suns team surrounded a horrible Amare stoudimire with good defnders. Steven Hunter, Shawn Marion, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson(when he cared about defense), Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Shaq to a lesser extent....

People talk about D'antoni's D, but again, it was literally ALWAYS better if Amare Stoudimire wasn't there. the Spurs, every year, would just run a P&R will whoever he was covering and Toni Parker because they knew he would literally NEVER take that step out to slow Parker down or stop the midrange jumper. People would look at the stat sheet and blame Nash. Its always been Stoudimire.

D'Antoni has plenty o faults and his stubborness is one of them. His treatment of Nate Robinson and Stephon Marbury was embarassing. But the guy isn't a fan of ISO player, he values ball movement and the ability of everyone on the court to score from 10-15 feet. The Knicks traded away a bunch of players that fit his scheme for one that didn't. That was just dumb. I don't see how you can hire someone to do something then say "Hey, change the very reason we hired you completely and win". Its nonsense. Woody's iso Melo....I wish him the best. i don't think it can possibly work.

[moocow007]

D'Antoni is great if he has the perfect players for his team and a superstar PG running things. Without that, he's terrible. He holds no one accountable (he said that his job is not, I repeat NOT, to police the players), he doesn't know defense if it hit him between the eyes after calling him ahead of time to warn him and he makes the absolute worse adjustments in game I've ever seen (and I've been watching games since the early 70's and have seen some gosh awful head coaches in that regards). There's a reason why the Suns team was doing better than his Knicks team despite having probably one of the least talented rosters in the NBA and it's the same reason that he did so well in Phoenix...Steve Nash.

That Suns team surrounded a horrible Amare stoudimire with good defnders. Steven Hunter, Shawn Marion, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson(when he cared about defense), Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Shaq to a lesser extent....

The Suns team was successful because they were able to execute his offense which calls for getting the ball quickly up the court before the other team has a chance to setup defensively (makes sense) and take good shots quickly and when you are in position to shoot (also makes sense). However, to execute that to elite level, you need: a) a great true PG whose skill is to get everyone else setup perfectly NOT to score himself by going 1-on-1 and b) a whole bunch of guys who can actually shoot (usually from deep as the logic is the closer you get to the basket the more likely you'll be defended and, as a result, have a lesser chance of getting a clean look). The Knicks have had really neither. Having guys that can kinda defend obviously helps but their defense relied on the individual to be able to do so willingly and of their own volition NOT because of any defensive gameplan or drive to defend as a team.

People talk about D'antoni's D, but again, it was literally ALWAYS better if Amare Stoudimire wasn't there.

That's not true at all. The Suns executed best when Stoudemire was playing because he was great at the pick and roll...an integral part of D'Antoni offense when an immediate shot couldn't be gotten. Pick and roll was also something that Nash excels at. Stoudemire was the backbone for his SSOL offense when you can't get an immediate 3 or long range 2 quickly enough. It's also why he generally put up better numbers in the playoffs for D'Antoni relatively speaking since come playoff times teams aren't going to allow you to run as much and you have to rely on the pick and roll.

And the proof of how Stoudemire works in D'Antoni's offense was evident last season when, sans a real true PG of the caliber of Nash, Stoudemire was feasting at an MVP rate based purely off of pick and roll offense.

the Spurs, every year, would just run a P&R will whoever he was covering and Toni Parker because they knew he would literally NEVER take that step out to slow Parker down or stop the midrange jumper. People would look at the stat sheet and blame Nash. Its always been Stoudimire.

Who blames Nash for Parker? The Spurs beat the Suns regularly cause: 1) they're simply a better team, 2) they were a MUCH BETTER defensive/rebounding team (what wins in the playoffs), 3) Popovich is one of the best head coaches in the NBA at making adjustments and game planing around the strengths and weaknesses of the players he has (NOT forcing round pegs into square holes like D'Antoni), 4) Tim Duncan being one of the best PF's to ever play the game, 5) more balance overall as a team.

D'Antoni has plenty o faults and his stubborness is one of them. His treatment of Nate Robinson and Stephon Marbury was embarassing. But the guy isn't a fan of ISO player, he values ball movement and the ability of everyone on the court to score from 10-15 feet. The Knicks traded away a bunch of players that fit his scheme for one that didn't. That was just dumb. I don't see how you can hire someone to do something then say "Hey, change the very reason we hired you completely and win". Its nonsense. Woody's iso Melo....I wish him the best. i don't think it can possibly work.

10-15 feet? You mean 20-25 feet?

As far as the Knicks trading a bunch of players that fit his scheme? Those players resulted in barely .500 ball (2 games above .500 when the Melo trade happened) so it wasn't like they traded ideal players by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as why they hired him. The reason the Knicks hired him was to try to attract guys like Lebron James and Chris Bosh (and we know how well that went too)...that's widely been the assumption of why they picked him over someone like Tom Thibodeau (who was theirs for the taking).

Overall...D'Antoni was a complete failure in NY...given expectations (fair or not) and salary they paid him. Yes, if he had Nash and a whole bunch of jump shooters then they'd have been better, but you know what? If I had a million in my bank account I'd be better to but that's not happening either.

As far as iso is concerns. It's actually extremely odd that people are making such a big deal out of something that is and has been an integral part of the NBA for decades. I mean it's something that the NBA has been changing their rules to help push iso play. The greatest players in the NBA are the best ISO players. And yet, oddly, when anyone mentions Melo (one of the most dynamic and hard to stop offensive players in the NBA this past decade) the knee jerk reaction is "oh my god, why are they ISO'ing!?!?! They're doomed!!!".

Melo is great at ISO'ing IF you get him the ball in his comfort zone for him to try it. THAT, and NOT ISO"ing in general, was the problem with why the Knicks weren't successful early this season with Melo ISO'ing. George Karl mentioned it about "attacking the basket" and not settling for quick jumpers. Mike Woodson mentioned it about "getting Melo closer to the basket before the ball goes into him". And you know what? It worked in Denver and it's working now (see recent Knick games). Melo...still ISO'ing...but now getting the ball in better situation for him to be able to do something with the ISO. For D'Antoni (another example of not knowing or not being flexible to play to a players strengths) CONSISTENTLY had Anthony get the ball 25 feet from the basket and tyring to rely on him to either: a) put the ball on the floor from that fare out and create his own whot (Kobe Bryant Melo is not) or b) execute SSOL and get everyone else involved (Melo has never been in that role before). THAT...not putting a player in position to be successful was the problem NOT ISO'ing.

As far as Woodson goes, who knows how long this will last and he's obviously no Phil Jackson, but the one thing that he's been able to do that no head coach since Jeff Van Gundy (almost a decade ago) has been able to do is to get players to buy into his system, to defend and rebound and to play hard all the time despite their 2 superstars having been struggling most of the season (PS: both Stoudemire and Anthony have played MUCH better since Woodson took over). That's what Woodson should be congratulated for.

[Rip2137]

1, I love long drawn out explainations like that. Like...really. Good stuff dude.

I think you misread me on the Amare thing. Their offense was better with him, but their D went from near last in the league to top ten when he missed the year because of his knee(then they dropped to around 13-14 when Kurt Thomas got injured and they had to start Tim Thomas the rest of the year).

Again, I say, they jumped almost 20 spots in their defensive rating as soon as Amare was out. I don't think people can underestimate how bad a defender he was/is. For D'Antoni, who clearly likes aggressive defensive guys with his playing the likes of Hunter, Admuson, Jeffries, Shumpert, Walker, Bell, Marion and such, I think he gets a bad rap as a defensive coach because he has constantly been saddled with a guy in Amare that only plays D every once in a while. And just like he did with Johnson, D'Antoni, Porter, Gentry, and D'Antoni AGAIN(remember his defensive and rebounding effort last year when he first got to the Knicks?) he will quit on Woodson once he puts up a defensive stinker and the coach has the NERVE to ask him to play on both ends of the court.


But the ISO stuff. okay, I am going to start in 1990 just for the heck of it. The Bulls(6) the Rockets (2) The Spurs(4) Lakers(5) Celtics(1)...none of those guys won using a heavy Iso offense.

The Mavricks last year(and I would debate that they don't have a ISO heavy offense, but in the finals they certainly went to that) and the Miami Heat with Wade (which was pretty much all ISO) are the 2 teams in the last 22 years that have won a championship using a heavy Iso offense.

Hell, the 5 championship lakers, 3 championship Celtics, that Philly Team and the Pistons teams didn't either in the 80's (I am officially out of years I watched basketball to tell you anything different.).

So 2 teams in the past 32 years have used this form of offense and won a championship. I don't see how any competant coach that has other options would go to this as exclusively as guys like Mike Brown and Mike Woodson do. Come playoff time, its just too much easier to stop than an offense predicated with ball movement. The thing is Woodson would literally STOP ball movement when it was working to go to a ISO offense that didn't work. Right now, all the talk of Iso'ing Melo, the Knicks are winning due to hitting their jumpshots. and LOTS of them.

[NYKBaller]

He's been a godsend after mike antoni, hopefuly its a good game when he comes back on fri to play against you guys

[HMFFL]

Woodson has his star players support.

Melo 'absolutely' wants Woodson back

Count Carmelo Anthony among those who want to see Knicks interim head coach Mike Woodson back next year.

"Absolutely," Anthony told ESPN's Hannah Storm in an interview for the SportsCenter series "Face2Face." "I'm a big supporter of what coach Woodson has done. His approach to the game, and what he gets out of all his players, even me. He holds everybody accountable and that's what we need."

Woodson took over the Knicks on March 14 when they were six games under .500 and in the midst of a six-game losing streak. He's since led New York to a 16-6 record.

The Knicks clinched their second straight playoff berth last week and enter play Tuesday in seventh place in the Eastern Conference, thanks in no small part to Anthony, whose averaging 31 points on 50 percent shooting in April.

Anthony has repeatedly credited Woodson for holding players 'accountable.'

The former Hawks head coach took over for Mike D'Antoni on March 14 after D'Antoni and the organization 'mutually' agreed to part ways.

There was rampant speculation that one of the main reasons for the coaching change was a rift between D'Antoni and Anthony.

In the interview with Storm, Anthony said he never had a problem with D'Antoni.

"Me and Coach Mike never had any arguments, we never had any clashes or any disagreements," Anthony said. "We communicated. If it was something that he didn't like, I always went to him and said, 'Coach, come to me, let me know what you don't like; if it's something I'm doing, if it's something I'm not doing. As long as me and you is on the same page, none of this outside stuff should be (affecting us)." http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... odson-back

[JustAwesome]

Anthony loves him because of the isolation plays.

[dms269]

Anthony loves him because of the isolation plays.

Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner!!!

Of course Melo will want Woodson back, he runs the show there. When he was interviewed in SI you could tell that. He basically said that when they were running a traditional offense (ala a PG running the show) he had no idea how to play. Give him the ball and have him run iso, and he does well. That is why Woodson is doing so well, because he can just have Melo go out there and run iso all day long and not have Lin run pick and rolls with Chandler.

[nykballa2k4]

Question: for game four is there any hope Woodson uses more of our bench or am I to endure 48 minutes of Iso-Melo??

[MaceCase]

Question: for game four is there any hope Woodson uses more of our bench or am I to endure 48 minutes of Iso-Melo??

If you've been blown out after 35 minutes of Iso Melo you will see more of your bench.

[nykballa2k4]

Question: for game four is there any hope Woodson uses more of our bench or am I to endure 48 minutes of Iso-Melo??

If you've been blown out after 35 minutes of Iso Melo you will see more of your bench.

define blown out? 12 points? 20 points? Might be worth cheering for the former...

[MaceCase]

Woody likes his blowouts in the mid 20s. Your bench will probably cut into that after the game is decided and make the game look more respectable at the end......So former and latter.

Hope I've been helpful