Should the Hawks trade Josh Smith, what best return could we

[Slartibartfast]

JJ, Gasol and Horford is a pretty tough trio - Horford's quickness and range would make it a better two-way pairing than Gasol/Bynum.

I think Gasol for Smith would work straight-up, too, with Josh's trade kicker. I don't see it working with Marvin tacked on - LA would likely balk at the added salary/years with their nasty luxury tax situation. LA would probably demand Teague as well, though I'm not sure they have the bargaining advantage anymore with Gasol getting older and struggling so much in the playoffs.

I think Smith would do well in the old Lamar Odom role for LA as well.

[ATL Boy]

JJ, Gasol and Horford is a pretty tough trio - Horford's quickness and range would make it a better two-way pairing than Gasol/Bynum.

I think Gasol for Smith would work straight-up, too, with Josh's trade kicker. I don't see it working with Marvin tacked on - LA would likely balk at the added salary/years with their nasty luxury tax situation. LA would probably demand Teague as well, though I'm not sure they have the bargaining advantage anymore with Gasol getting older and struggling so much in the playoffs.

I think Smith would do well in the old Lamar Odom role for LA as well.

We arent gonna do Smith for Gasol straight up, its either LA takes Marvin or no deal and even then I dont think Id do it; Smith is better, younger, and cheaper so why should we trade u Josh for Pau straight up? Id much rather let Smith just expire rather than take on Gasols contract, or better yet we can just give Smith Pau Gasol money and we wouldnt be having this discussion at all

[parson]

Have we convinced ourselves that the ASG will be willing to go deep into the Luxury Tax .... AND for a number of years?

My biggest problem, aside from Gasol's contract, is the fantastic potential Josh Smith has at SF. Is it an anomaly or the indication of greatness that Smith's offensive PER was 26 and his opponent's PER was only 1.8? When I couple that knowledge with my opinion that Smith is unstoppable against SFs, I tend to believe he might be special at the 3.

[Ruhiel]

Have we convinced ourselves that the ASG will be willing to go deep into the Luxury Tax .... AND for a number of years?

My biggest problem, aside from Gasol's contract, is the fantastic potential Josh Smith has at SF. Is it an anomaly or the indication of greatness that Smith's offensive PER was 26 and his opponent's PER was only 1.8? When I couple that knowledge with my opinion that Smith is unstoppable against SFs, I tend to believe he might be special at the 3.

Its an indication of versatility. Which is a shame because overall, the Atlanta Hawks, played Josh Smith only 0% of his minutes at the 3. So sample size. about Smith being unstoppable? You need to be more specific.

As a wing player in transition he'd be close to unstoppable on the wing. In the halfcourt he;d be pretty good coming off flares and floppy screens. Rebounding wise he'd rank as the best SF in the league. Blocks as well.


But I know 3 times: one game was a win against ORL and Turkoglu; then the 2nd was the OKC game against KD, then there was when he came in with the 2nd unit against the Bulls to play SF against J.Butler. Got a dunk, came off a Floppy set - down screen for a pretty jumper. Blocked asik as well, guess he didn't expect Smith coming from the wing. Went straight up and rejected him. pretty neat stuff.

Ironically I think to beat the best team in the East, Miami Atlanta might not need a center...but other teams have centers and will wear the center-less Hawks out and eliminate them before you can ever reach the Heat.
Hawks must add 1 more strong center. And I'm all for Melo.

But overall Smith would be a lot like Iguodala. Only way more boards. That would help take pressure off of the shooting guard (Joe/Kobe) because Smith would draw the biggest defender and help rebound that guards miss.

[MaceCase]

Have we convinced ourselves that the ASG will be willing to go deep into the Luxury Tax .... AND for a number of years?

My biggest problem, aside from Gasol's contract, is the fantastic potential Josh Smith has at SF. Is it an anomaly or the indication of greatness that Smith's offensive PER was 26 and his opponent's PER was only 1.8? When I couple that knowledge with my opinion that Smith is unstoppable against SFs, I tend to believe he might be special at the 3.

Three fallacies here.

1) The deal is cap neutral this year and adds only 12 million in salary in 2013 where the team is close to 20 million below the cap. It is only a 2 year deal and at his age he is bound to take a paycut if he resigned beyond that so there is no fear of "going deep into" or spending "for a number of years" in the luxury tax.

2) It is an anomaly because he played 0% of the team's minute at SF if you are going by that statistic on 82games, skewing the sample. The previous season where he actually played a considerable amount of minutes he was actually more pedestrian both defensively and offensively at SF. But now it's time to be fair, looking at his statistics provided there he has been considerably better at Center also where he actually played a lot more minutes over the past few seasons thus having a larger sample size. Are you willing to use the same argument for his potential at C?

which leads to

3) Whatever his potential may be and whatever fears there are over luxury tax, how does that answer the glaring issue of how do you get Josh Smith to resign and how do you do it by getting him to take a pay cut and thus actually avoid spending into luxury tax for a great amount of years?


He's not an RFA anymore, the team can't lowball him and force him to go find his own market. He can just as easily find more money elsewhere or even take less just to get out of ATL because of the slight in two consecutive free agencies.

[MaceCase]

JJ, Gasol and Horford is a pretty tough trio - Horford's quickness and range would make it a better two-way pairing than Gasol/Bynum.

I think Gasol for Smith would work straight-up, too, with Josh's trade kicker. I don't see it working with Marvin tacked on - LA would likely balk at the added salary/years with their nasty luxury tax situation. LA would probably demand Teague as well, though I'm not sure they have the bargaining advantage anymore with Gasol getting older and struggling so much in the playoffs.

I think Smith would do well in the old Lamar Odom role for LA as well.

His tradekicker is only for 15% of his remaining salary so it would not legally cover the trade especially since both teams are over the cap, Marvin Williams will have to be included with LA throwing in a player like Eyenga to complete the deal.

[Ruhiel]

Draft him a center and start a true center.
Move him at small forward, and have big men set screens for him rather than ISO Josh at the elbow vs a slower guy.
show him and the fanst that the Hawks want to be something different. And win with that lineup.

Have multiple capable healthy big men ready come playoffs.

Kill lots of birds with 1 stone. Same old same old wont get it done with keeping Josh and Al long term. And neither will trying to integrate a player who needs to make shots to be effective into the offense.

The team and the center need to be pluggable and the team ready to jump in and go for the jugular. Bulls are out. Celts are aging out.

No nonsense. There's only one objective win the championship. No player development sideshows.

Show the fans (and Josh) something new and you get a discount.

[myrak433]

If Bynum and Gasol can't get it done why in the hell do you believe Gasol and Horford can.

Bynum and Gasol won the Western Conference 3 times in the last 5 years. Bynum and Gasol won two titles in the last 4 years.

I'd say they got it done just fine.

when the Lakers won the West how many games did Bynum Log?

[parson]

... overall, the Atlanta Hawks, played Josh Smith only 0% of his minutes at the 3. So sample size. about Smith being unstoppable? You need to be more specific.

The sample size is the reason I asked whether his numbers at SF were anomaly or indicative. As to my "unstoppable" statement, that was personal opinion, based on what I have perceived as a really good ability to post up true SFs down low. I really don't think many SFs can stop him from posting them up down low and scoring over them.

Point is, he's pretty good at PF but I wonder if he'd be _great_ at SF.

Another argument: we paid Joe, pay Smith. As others have already argued (very well), we're committed to that approach, now that we've paid Joe.

We should only trade him for a really good Center ... or a good Center and a lot more. Gasol? LA had better add value (which I don't think their fans want to hear) or we may have traded a budding superstar for an aging, overpaid Center. As for re-signing Gasol on the cheap later? What are the odds he'd prefer us to Memphis? If he's going to give anyone a discount, I'd bet it'd be his brother's team.

[Jamaaliver]

when the Lakers won the West how many games did Bynum Log?

In 2008, 0 postseason games played by Bynum. They lost the title.*

In 2009, 18 postseason games played. They won the title.

In 2010, 17 postseason games played. They won the title.

Again. Bynum & Gasol got it done.

5 straight Division Titles. 2 Western conference Championships. 2 NBA Titles.

In that same span: Josh Smith and Horford once won 2 games in the 2nd round.

[Jamaaliver]

we may have traded a budding superstar for an aging, overpaid Center

Dude, Josh Smith has been in the league for 7 years. He's almost 27 years old. His athleticism is waning. He's never been an All-Star. He's never made an All NBA Team. His career avg are 15 ppg 8 rpg 2 bpg.

Josh Smith is what he is. A good player. Not a superstar. Not a dominant player. Not a smart player. Not a franchise player.

Let's not get carried away with him being a 'budding superstar'.

[torsport]

Would you guys consider #8 for Josh Smith straight up?

[Superiorblogman]

Would you guys consider #8 for Josh Smith straight up?

No, not near enough

[pistons]

What about Josh Smith for #5 + Salmons. Hawks get their C in Drummond to play next to Horford and move him to PF. Potentially that could be a devastating combo in the post.

[Superiorblogman]

What about Josh Smith for #5 + Salmons. Hawks get their C in Drummond to play next to Horford and move him to PF. Potentially that could be a devastating combo in the post.

Naw I like Drummond but I would not be willing to take back a bad contract just to have a shot at him.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7ypgjyp

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=bumsbj5

Give me Honeycutt or Garcia if you are not willing to do Evans and that is a deal.

[Gant]

Since Josh Smith is entering the last year of his contract, he is in a similar position as Dwight Howard in that the team that trades for him must be assured he will re-sign. This could cut the number of potential trade partners down considerably.

For example, would Smith re-sign with either Detroit or Sacramento? Maybe. But then again, maybe not.

I'm not saying Smith has a super narrow list of preferred teams like Dwight, but I'm sure this does affect his situation, and may devalue him.


Second point- also about value: Since Smith is entering his final year, his trade value could easily drop as the season progresses. So, the Hawks likely would get more now than they will at the deadline, and they might get surprisingly little at that point depending on the answer to the first part of this post.