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Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season

Moderators: HMFFL, dms269, Jamaaliver

How has the team fared relative to your expectations thus far?

Exactly where I thought they'd be
0
No votes
Slightly better
0
No votes
Worse -- across the board
3
100%
 
Total votes: 3

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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#41 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:53 pm

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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#42 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:18 am

Sigh...

Things are really bad right now.

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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#43 » by Radioblacktive1 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:08 am

Was Phoenix or Philly ever this bad during their rebuilds this decade?
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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#44 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:21 am

Radioblacktive1 wrote:Was Phoenix or Philly ever this bad during their rebuilds this decade?


Philly definitely was. Embiid wasn't playing, Simmons wasn't playing, Okafor was getting in fights at bars. Embiid was getting into fights with assistant coaches.

They were so bad for so long, other owners pressured the league to intervene.

We're... just having a bad season. Our future is still bright, though.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#45 » by dms269 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:39 am

The struggle is the fact that outside of Trae and JC, no one is willing to step up.

Someone should at least be able to step in and score 15 if needed. Alex Len should NOT be the 2nd leading scorer.

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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#46 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:52 pm

dms269 wrote:The struggle is the fact that outside of Trae and JC, no one is willing to step up...



100% agree.

It's unfathomable that a team built around two All Star caliber players can't even keep games close against modest opponents.

This falls on the players and coaching staff.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#47 » by jayu70 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
dms269 wrote:The struggle is the fact that outside of Trae and JC, no one is willing to step up...



100% agree.

It's unfathomable that a team built around two All Star caliber players can't even keep games close against modest opponents.

This falls on the players and coaching staff.

Weeelll, I'mma nitpick this......that's not exactly accurate.
The one game where they both played we lost by 3 (though we still got down big early)
They've played half a game together since that game, no Trae since the 2nd half at Bucks.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#48 » by Shooter Says » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:47 pm

Losing Dedmon has definitely hurt this team and it makes me wonder if that's the biggest factor in how the team has regressed this year (outside of the JC suspension). Which if it is, could be a blessing since Dedmon is arguably an average to slightly below average Center in the league. The drop off from Dedmon to Len is pretty substantial and the drop off from Dedmon to Jones/Bruno is even steeper.

In addition to losing Dedmon, this team just wasn't built to compete. We have no shooting coming off the bench, and I refuse to believe that TS or LP thought 2nd units of Turner/Crabbe/Parsons or Bembry/VC/Jones would be a good idea or able to score. These moves just scream TANK to me. It wouldn't have been hard to bring in a back up PG or some vet shooting (Lin, Crawford still both available) but the plan was to lose games.

Outside of a horrid bench and losing Dedmon, the biggest change is Reddish/Hunter instead of Prince. Since rookies are generally not great, it's no surprise this isn't working out this year. BUT, Cam has already shown me that he's a better defender than Prince ever was and Hunter isn't far behind. Both rookies have shown flashes on offense, so I'll take their ceilings any day over what we had in Prince. Huerter has been off this year, but injuries haven't been kind to him.

All in all this team was built to tank, and the record reflects that. It was a fantasy to think this team could compete for an 8th seed with the off season moves we made. By far, the biggest takeaway through the quarter mark of the season though is Trae freakin' Young. At the end of last season, it became pretty clear that he could be a star, but to see him already rise to a border line superstar has been fun to watch and amazing. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season and seeing our young guys improve even more. I'm also looking forward to either Wiseman or Edwards in a Hawks jersey next year (fingers crossed)!
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Re: Reviewing the first (Quarter) of the Hawks Season 

Post#49 » by CP War Hawks » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:59 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
dms269 wrote:The struggle is the fact that outside of Trae and JC, no one is willing to step up...



100% agree.

It's unfathomable that a team built around two All Star caliber players can't even keep games close against modest opponents.

This falls on the players and coaching staff.


One of the ugliest stretches of Hawks basketball I can remember since 05. We know a decent defensive stretch big makes the team respectable.

Time to embrace the tank fully, and get any type of value for these expirings. You can't tell me there is not a G league big that's not better than Jones or Bruno out there.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Third) of the Hawks Season 

Post#50 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:19 pm

NBA Power Rankings

30. Atlanta Hawks (Previously 30)

Atlanta, owner of the league's worst record and net rating, is the only team with multiple losing streaks of at least 10 games this season.

The Hawks aren't going to magically transform just because they got their best big man back, but Collins will provide an offensive boost as a roll man who's already established chemistry with Trae Young. Atlanta can't defend regardless of who's on the floor, but its offense depends entirely on Young. It doesn't look like the Hawks will get out of this spot any time soon.
Bleacher Report

NBA Power Rankings

30. Hawks – Regardless of the severity of Trae Young’s ankle injury, it’s officially time to look toward 2020-21 in Atlanta. Who could the Hawks add in June’s draft? Shooting guard Anthony Edwards could bring size and athleticism to Atlanta’s backcourt, though James Wiseman may be a sensible pick to anchor the back line of the Hawks’ scuffling defense. Atlanta chose Young over Luka Doncic in 2018 (no slight to Young here), and the early returns on De’Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish are middling. The Hawks need to hit on their first-round pick in 2020.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Third) of the Hawks Season 

Post#51 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:33 pm

NBA Power Rankings

Atlanta Hawks (Previously 30th), 6-27 (-10.6 net rating)

What’s happening with the Hawks? Atlanta just keeps losing. The Hawks have now lost 10 straight games for the second time this season. They can’t guard anybody. Trae Young is awesome but he’s not an Avenger able to save the day. It feels like we’re just hoping to see a single-digit loss for the Hawks most nights to talk ourselves into progress. This team is brutal to watch outside of its phenom point guard.

New Year’s resolution: Play some defense. This is the worst team in the league and I’m not sure it’s particularly close. The Hawks just can’t find a single redeeming quality on the defensive end of the floor right now outside of forcing turnovers. But that comes from young guys gambling for steals. John Collins came back and they’re still terrible. It’s going to blow back on Trae Young at some point soon because we, the collective, are dumb with how we evaluate young players and winning. Young is the only guy you can get behind right now.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#52 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:13 am

We...are terrible right now.

:banghead:
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#53 » by King Ken » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:23 pm

We are more talented than last year but we lost almost everyone older that helped us play a modern style of Basketball by living and dying by the 3 to get guys who really can't score that well or are rookies who need more development.

Our bench is horrible. Shooting is awful. Defensive communication is trash. Our vets suck. We are to young. Early season with Jabari gave us hope because Parker was killing people but he's hurt now and our bench can't score
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#54 » by tbhawksfan1 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:54 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:We...are terrible right now.

:banghead:
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Which teams would you wanna trade places with on the left side? 0 for me. I belive in the plan and the future and I'm totally willing to be on the left hand side, until we're not anymore. Two, three years Hawks will be rising/ soaring.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#55 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:59 am

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:We...are terrible right now.

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Which teams would you wanna trade places with on the left side? 0 for me.


On the left side? Golden State. Easily.

In the whole league: Memphis Grizzlies. They have a comparable core, but are able to compete now due as they have productive veterans to lean on:

Code: Select all

The bigger surprise here is the Grizzlies, who have been fun all season and are now also relevant. Memphis has won five in a row and seven of its past 10. Ja Morant is the runaway favorite for Rookie of the Year, and the Grizzlies look like they have a solid long-term core in place with Jaren Jackson Jr. and Brandon Clarke at his side. All three young stars are putting up impressive numbers. These kids are all right, and they’ve accelerated the rebuild to the point that they have a real shot to make the playoffs this season.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#56 » by tbhawksfan1 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:We...are terrible right now.

Image


Which teams would you wanna trade places with on the left side? 0 for me.


On the left side? Golden State. Easily.

In the whole league: Memphis Grizzlies. They have a comparable core, but are able to compete now due as they have productive veterans to lean on:

Code: Select all

The bigger surprise here is the Grizzlies, who have been fun all season and are now also relevant. Memphis has won five in a row and seven of its past 10. Ja Morant is the runaway favorite for Rookie of the Year, and the Grizzlies look like they have a solid long-term core in place with Jaren Jackson Jr. and Brandon Clarke at his side. All three young stars are putting up impressive numbers. These kids are all right, and they’ve accelerated the rebuild to the point that they have a real shot to make the playoffs this season.
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I love what the Grizz are doing. Drool over JJJ and Ja is great. They got starter quality vets so they look good.

GSW; nah. In the present they are crap because of injuries. In the near future they are going to be an ex-dynasty.

If you only look at the Hawks in the present, game to game, sure it looks bad. If you take into account that they are one of the teams the most set up for coming years, things look MUCH better.

Hawks tanking, Grizz not.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#57 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:29 pm

After struggling through first half of season, Hawks aim for ‘consistency’ in second half

...the Hawks have been bad in the first half, maintaining the worst record in the Eastern Conference since hitting a low point in a 143-120 loss to the Knicks (now the second-worst team in the Eastern Conference at 11-31) Dec. 17. They lead the league in turnovers per game (16.6), they’ve got the fifth-worst defensive rating (112.5) and until Thursday’s trade that brought back Jeff Teague, they didn’t really have a backup point guard behind [Trae] Young to lead the struggling second unit. The addition of Teague could change things for the better, if he can bolster the bench.

As of Friday afternoon, Huerter and Collins have played just 281 minutes together over 15 games. Add in Trae Young and that trio has played 145 minutes together in 11 games. Moving into the second half of the season, it’s numbers like those that make it hard for players to assess the Hawks’ first half.

Asked to grade the Hawks’ first 41 games, Pierce gave it an “incomplete.”

“For me, it’s hard,” Pierce said. “It’s hard to evaluate the team after what we’ve been through."

At this point last season, the Hawks were 12-29, so they’ve regressed instead of taking that step forward they were aiming for. But this season’s team still thinks 9-32 doesn’t tell the whole story, and looks to show that in the second half.
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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#58 » by jayu70 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:58 pm

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Spoiler:
We’re at the halfway point of the season and the Hawks are 9-32 — a far cry from where many expected this team to be entering this season. It shouldn’t be a surprise, however, that this team is as bad as it is because of the roster Travis Schlenk built. It’s simply not good. The Hawks upgraded their backup point guard position Thursday by acquiring Jeff Teague, who spent his first seven seasons in Atlanta. They still need more production out of the bench and their rookies, but getting Teague should help stabilize a second unit that has been horrid most nights.

The one thing head coach Lloyd Pierce is looking for out of the Hawks for the remaining 41 games requires just one word.

“Consistency,” he said.


Trae Young: A 

Young is an All-Star. It doesn’t matter that he plays for the worst team in the NBA. 
Young is averaging 29 points and 8.5 assists per game while consistently drawing double teams, and for at least 25 games, he was the only player teams truly had to scheme against.
“I’ll tell you, first-hand, as a coach who votes, it’s hard to vote for teams with our record,” Pierce said. “It really is. (But) it’s hard to vote against a guy with his numbers. We would love to be in a position where our record helps him more than anything. Because Trae being at the All-Star event helps our organization, helps our team. We’re excited. We’re proud. We want him to be there.”
Young’s defense for the first quarter of the season was very bad, but it has improved from where it was. Because of the noticeable defensive improvement, he has to be an A because his offense has been nothing short of excellent.

Kevin Huerter: B
For the second straight year, Huerter had a slow start to the season because of an offseason injury. He sustained a shoulder injury against Denver which caused him to miss 11 games. Since then, Huerter has been the Hawks’ second-best player.
He’s shooting better than 40 percent from 3-point range this season, a mark that Huerter believes he should always be surpassing.

Alex Len: B
Len described his start of the season as “pretty bad.” It was worse than that.
He’s now having his most efficient offensive season in his career with a 58 percent effective field goal percentage and is making 63 percent of all his 2-point attempts, a career-best by far.
Where he has improved the most this season is on the defensive end of the floor. Defense is not something he has ever been known for, but he has developed into an above-average defender and has provided solid rim protection.

John Collins: B-
Collins’ suspension derailed any hopes the Hawks had of making the playoffs. 
Defensively, Collins has been phenomenal. Having him at center has worked well in a small-ball lineup. He has gotten more opportunities for blocks while playing center, and his block rate ranks in the 87th percentile, according to Cleaning The Glass.

Jabari Parker: C
Parker has missed nine of the past 10 games with a throat infection and a shoulder impingement injury that is going to sideline him for at least a few more games.
But when he was healthy, Parker played a critical role in filling in for Collins when he was suspended 25 games.
Parker’s defense has been an issue his entire career, and this year is no different. I don’t think there’s any hope of him becoming a good defender,

Brandon Goodwin: C
There has been a small sample size with Goodwin being that he only has played in 12 games. Even with the addition of Teague, Goodwin belongs in the NBA.
What I’ve been impressed with most with Goodwin is his defense. Even with him being a small point guard, he’s pesky and a very good example of what Young can be if he exerted himself on that end of the floor.

Cam Reddish: C- 
The offense has been dreadful for Reddish. The numbers are historically bad and comparable to draft lottery busts.
But why I think he has been slightly better than average is because of his defense. Reddish already has become the team’s best defender. He has become the go-to guy who guards the opposing team’s best wing player recently, which is something I predicted would happen in my predictions piece I did at the start of the year. His block and steal rates are both above the 75th percentile for all wings. 
His ceiling is higher than De’Andre Hunter’s if he can figure it out on offense, and Reddish’s defense gives him the nod over Hunter for being the team’s best rookie so far.

De’Andre Hunter: C-
Unremarkable is probably the best adjective I would use to describe the first half of Hunter’s rookie season. There’ve been many games when Hunter is just unnoticeable. They need more out of Hunter. He’s leading all rookies in minutes per game and doesn’t stand out in any category amongst his peers. 
Hunter was drafted because defense was a purported strength of his after winning college basketball’s defensive player of the year award last year at Virginia. His block and steal rate both rank below the 20th percentile for all wings, and his offensive and defensive rebounding rates are also below the 20th percentile.

DeAndre’ Bembry: D
Bembry is arguably the most frustrating player to watch nightly and definitely leads the team in moments when I’ve mentally said, “What are you actually doing?” But there are moments when he’s completely locked in and flying around on the court and making plays.
There were hopes entering the season that Bembry’s shooting would get better, but it has gotten worse. He’s shooting 25 percent from 3 and 51 percent from the free-throw line.
Pierce likes the energy Bembry provides off the bench and his ability to defend, but his individual defense has been an issue more times than not this season.

Damian Jones: D
If basketball was just about catching lobs and scoring in the paint, Jones would be one of the league’s best players; but alas, it’s not. Jones hasn’t shown much of anything to warrant him coming back next season, even with the team needing centers as Fernando is the only one under contract.

Bruno Fernando: D
Hey, do you want to know who leads the Hawks in net rating this season? That’s right; it’s Fernando. Now if you have watched the Hawks play, you would know that Fernando is nowhere near the most productive player on the roster. He hasn’t been good and shouldn’t be playing as much as he does. Barring a magical run, the Hawks aren’t making the playoffs and the rest of the season should be about growth and development for players like Fernando, so I would expect him to get more minutes if they don’t add another center at the trade deadline.
The main problem Fernando has is he has been out of position countless times this season, and it’s noticeably frustrated some of the players on the floor with him when it has happened. 

Vince Carter: D- 
Carter became the first player in NBA history to play in four different decades this year, but he hung on one year too long. He’s unplayable if he’s not making 3s, and he’s only hitting 27 percent of his attempts this season.


Evan Turner: D-
There haven’t been many worse offensive players in the NBA this season than Turner. Synergy ranks him in the second percentile in points per possession. He doesn’t have a future on this roster and likely will be traded or bought out around the deadline.

Chandler Parsons: F

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Re: Reviewing the first (Half) of the Hawks Season 

Post#59 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:03 pm

NBA Midseason Grades

Several teams check in at the halfway point with A grades, while many others are hoping things improve from this point on

Atlanta Hawks: C-

Where they're at: This is the worst team in the NBA, based on its net rating and 9-32 record. That is different, however, than being the most dysfunctional team, the most hopeless team or the least exciting team. Atlanta is full of young players, and the veterans have not been productive enough to give them the structure they need to compete. The Hawks were not built to get stops or to be functional with Trae Young on the bench, and they definitely weren't built to withstand John Collins being suspended for 25 games and Kevin Huerter hurting his shoulder.


How did they get here: Young is averaging about 29 and 8 on 58.8 percent true shooting, and he'll likely be an All-Star. His teammates, however, are shooting a nightmarish 30 percent from 3-point range, and they can't make up for his defensive limitations. Atlanta turns the ball over like crazy and gives up loads of transition points. It fouls recklessly, doesn't keep opponents out of the paint and and surrenders way too many offensive rebounds. It has also been one of the league's worst crunch-time teams on both ends, and there have been intermittent issues with effort. The highlights are cool, though.


Where do they go from here: There is still so much upside. Young and Collins, a devastating pick-and-roll duo, have made real progress. Huerter complements those two beautifully, and the front office made big bets that rookies De'Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish will do the same. I personally hope the Hawks can pull off a move or two and make the team more organized, as long as they don't deviate from their patient plan or sacrifice much of their financial flexibility. Maybe an Andre Drummond trade would fit into that category, but I don't love his fit with Collins and I'm not sure they will be able to retain him without overpaying.
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