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Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic)

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Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#1 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:35 am

Hollinger cited two. Beal and Heild.

It's beyond me how anyone can look at this team and pretend that it can afford acquiring a starter--through trade or otherwise--who would represent essentially the same level of defensive performance that Trae brings.

Sure, we and every other team always can use more better shooting, but we have a special need for defense in the backcourt, and so it's a non-starter to talk about Beal or Heild.

Kirschner added Oladipo to the conversation:

"I’m not sure if he’s “gettable,” but Victor Oladipo is someone who could make sense for the Hawks as a secondary playmaker and surely cover up for Young’s defensive limitations. I don’t know if there are long-term injury concerns on Indiana’s side, but trading for him now would allow the Hawks to see how he fits before he hits free agency in 2021."


Unfortunately, though, he closed down that part of his interview with Hollinger w/o giving him a chance to comment.

It's not necessarily predictive of anything, but it is notable that the chatter among reporters and bloggers when you google Oladipo's name is growing. Suspicion is that IND will eventually swap him in spite of their infatuation with him simply because of the cold hard facts related to his health and to his contract situation.

He is the quintessential perfect acquisition for ATL, imo, both from the perspective of what he brings to the starting line-up (a proven top-tier talent) and from the perspective that he is, indeed, potentially "get-able" for the very reasons that IND has reasons to be concerned.

Everything Schlenk has told us about his priorities points to a top priority of identifying and luring a veteran elite player to this roster at this stage, and given the practicalities of Collins' contract, Young's contract, our cap space, the inventory of players available in free agency this and next summer, and the perceived likelihood of attracting an elite player to ATL based on history being virtually nil... there almost can be no question but that acquiring Oladipo is Schlenk's most promising hope in an otherwise mostly empty field of dreams.


The only other plausible target is only a trade target in the case of a sign-and-trade scenario: Brandon Ingram.

Would he be a possible straight-up free agency acquisition though? We have the cap space for it, of course. Hollinger doesn't consider that even plausible.

However, an ESPN roundtable conversation with four anonymous team executives before the season was interrupted rendered a very different opinion. Theirs was that there are no guarantees as to what NOP will do. The consensus was that Ingram's not proven himself worthy of a max contract, and that if NOP lets him go into free agency and bring a contract back, the contract very well might allow him him an early ETO that creates more complication for them. Apart from that interview, there is a perception among some if not many that once Zion arrived, Ingram's game took a step back--though to be fair, that's to be expected when two featured players are new to each other.

Ingram's been quoted recently as acknowledging that he had no second thoughts to playing in the bubble, and one can read between the lines of this quote, "I think playing in this will – it could help me out," that he realizes he still has some convincing to do before free agency starts.

Me, I've always taken the perspective that if Schlenk likes the package that the player brings to the roster, there is no reason to not pursue him--at least apart from some significant trade first, such as for Oladipo.

However, it is very much plausible that Schlenk does NOT like the package because there are some ambiguities about what kind of player and what kind of person Ingram will ultimately prove to be. It could go either way. He's only 22, and one can make the case that he's shown both positive and negative signs in terms of how much of a team player he will be considered and similarly but different, how much of a leader. His talent is irrefutably similar to a young Kevin Durant, so it's very tempting to shove all the chips to the middle and just go for him. But that doesn't seem to be something we should expect from Schlenk. He seems much more cerebral than that.

Then again, the Knicks also have enough cap space to go after him. And it's really for that reason that I'm less bullish on Schlenk's pursuit, or at least his successful pursuit--New York is New York, and Ingram definitely strikes me as the kind of personality who would prefer to be playing in the most prominent market he can.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#2 » by Bluvelvet84 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:14 pm

In ideal player would be Jaylon Brown. Good defender. On a team that has a logjam at G/F. He is the 3rd option in Bos, but could be 1b in Atlanta.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#3 » by Bluvelvet84 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:37 pm

If we land in the top 3 of the lottery, I would hand Boston Kevin Heurter and this year's 1st/2nd for Brown and one of their 1st rounders(#17)
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#4 » by azuresou1 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:35 pm

Yuck at Beal and Hield.

Oladipo is a good target, but I wouldn't trade anything for him. I'd rather see how next season pans out and if he looks healthy target him in 2021 FA. In this case, I don't think the benefit of locking him in is worth the risk.

Jaylen Brown is a **great** target but I wouldn't want to move either Huerter or Cam for him. This is less of an indictment on JB, and more on the relative upside of Huerter and Cam. I'd be much more willing to move Hunter and picks.

Gordon Hayward could also be an interesting target, since he'll definitely be accepting his player option, and the Celtics may prefer the cap flexibility. Not sure what the parameters of a trade might be, but just a thought.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#5 » by Bluvelvet84 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:29 pm

If I had to deal somebody Im dealing Huerter.Cam, and Hunter are darn near untouchable off of defensive potential alone. Jayson would avg 25 6 &4 in Atlanta

Heyward would be a nice addition, but he just turned 30.
If we end up making a move, I hope its for a longterm option.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#6 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:16 am

Don't look now, but seems IND may feel they can more than afford to let Oladipo go for a reasonable price, given recent developments.

Read on Twitter


Why trade for him?

Big reason is you relieve yourself of having to compete for a player of his caliber in free agency--ie, which hasn't historically went so well for ATL. Similar to how CHI locked up Butler. And... if you're Schlenk, that checks off the top box on your priority list, ie, add a top-tier veteran core player, following the pattern of how GSW added Iggy.

Big reason you don't, of course, is that you don't think he's going to be able to get all the way back to where he was pre-injury.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#7 » by kg01 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 8:21 pm

I'll trust the years where he's shown to be the caliber of a guy who can be traded for cash over the week+ where he's looked really good.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#8 » by CP War Hawks » Sun Aug 9, 2020 9:06 pm

I think you try and bring in VO if the opportunity arises. However, he's injury prone, 28, and alot smaller then people realize. With that said, my best offer is Huerter, pure cap space, and OKC pick.

I wanna hold on to this 2020 pick while it's relatively high. For Indy, the extra cap space allows them to pursue a good replacement in FVV.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#9 » by Hoopz Afrik » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:29 pm

I think Oladipo would be amazing for you guys. Brings ball-handling, slots right in as a secondary perimeter scorer/playmaker, and most importantly bring both experience and defense to the table. The last two are things that I'd imagine the Hawks are prioritizing. He has his share of injury concerns but I think that would be a risk worth taking. Him for maybe Huerter and a FRP should be enough to get the deal done.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#10 » by kg01 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:40 pm

Hoopz Afrik wrote:I think Oladipo would be amazing for you guys. Brings ball-handling, slots right in as a secondary perimeter scorer/playmaker, and most importantly bring both experience and defense to the table. The last two are things that I'd imagine the Hawks are prioritizing. He has his share of injury concerns but I think that would be a risk worth taking. Him for maybe Huerter and a FRP should be enough to get the deal done.


I actually agree, in theory. And, up until a few weeks ago, I would've been right with you. But he really threw me on his handling of the bubble play/no-play stuff.

Then I realized he's gonna basically be 30 by the time his next deal starts and will likely be looking for his last big payday. He's really only had 1 good year, in reality. Long story long, I've kinda soured on him.

I'd be hesitant to deal for him especially considering all the smoke that he's trying to end up in MIA thus would be a true rental.

A lot to consider and I'm a guy that absolutely wants us to trade the '20 pick.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#11 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 pm

Hoopz Afrik wrote:I think Oladipo would be amazing for you guys. Brings ball-handling, slots right in as a secondary perimeter scorer/playmaker, and most importantly bring both experience and defense to the table. The last two are things that I'd imagine the Hawks are prioritizing. He has his share of injury concerns but I think that would be a risk worth taking. Him for maybe Huerter and a FRP should be enough to get the deal done.


In 2012, at age 28, Iggy made his first (and only) ASG.

In 2018, at age 25, Dipo made his first (of two so far) ASG.

So, I was interested to look at Iggy's first ASG season, and the one that followed (2012-13), since he would arrive in GSW the season after that... and compare that to Dipo's first ASG season, and then the one that followed (2018-19), and deliberately setting this injury-comeback season aside.

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Anyone surprised to see how closely they mirror each other?

(I'm not, but it's good to have confirmed what was previously only suspected.)

Iggy's health, though, was never the question mark that Dipo's has become, and financially, it doesn't appear he ever represented the considerable slice of the salary cap pie that Dipo's would if he were to receive the max $25m extension [+ 7.5% annual raises] x 4 years that IND could possibly offer (or, in this case, ATL, if his rights were obtained). Still, if we assume the best and Dipo completely returns to pre-injury Dipo, that number would be a pretty stout value compared to the $30m+ that other top-tier players make.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#12 » by Hoopz Afrik » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:45 pm

Both are fair and valid points. I can understand the apprehension.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#13 » by Spud2nique » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:12 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Hoopz Afrik wrote:I think Oladipo would be amazing for you guys. Brings ball-handling, slots right in as a secondary perimeter scorer/playmaker, and most importantly bring both experience and defense to the table. The last two are things that I'd imagine the Hawks are prioritizing. He has his share of injury concerns but I think that would be a risk worth taking. Him for maybe Huerter and a FRP should be enough to get the deal done.


In 2012, at age 28, Iggy made his first (and only) ASG.

In 2018, at age 25, Dipo made his first (of two so far) ASG.

So, I was interested to look at Iggy's first ASG season, and the one that followed (2012-13), since he would arrive in GSW the season after that... and compare that to Dipo's first ASG season, and then the one that followed (2018-19), and deliberately setting this injury-comeback season aside.

Image

Anyone surprised to see how closely they mirror each other?

(I'm not, but it's good to have confirmed what was previously only suspected.)

Iggy's health, though, was never the question mark that Dipo's has become, and financially, it doesn't appear he ever represented the considerable slice of the salary cap pie that Dipo's would if he were to receive the max $25m extension [+ 7.5% annual raises] x 4 years that IND could possibly offer (or, in this case, ATL, if his rights were obtained). Still, if we assume the best and Dipo completely returns to pre-injury Dipo, that number would be a pretty stout value compared to the $30m+ that other top-tier players make.


Why do you hate us? We spend all this time rebuilding organically and knuckleheads wanna bring in some broke **** players to jack up our rebuild. The Ingram’s and Dipo’s of the world have kept the Hawks down for the last 35 years since I been a fan. Let’s rebuild this thing right and now self sabotage with all these injury prone overrated players and trying to add them to our squad to make another 10 years playoff run. I WANT RINGS. We are shooting for the stars and Dipo might be fading into the sunset early.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#14 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:42 pm

Hoopz Afrik wrote:Both are fair and valid points. I can understand the apprehension.


Mind you, whoever holds Dipo's contract next off-season will hold his Bird rights, and of course, that gives a team a significant leg up on any other competitors if it came to that. I say "if it came to that," because there's always the possibility that Dipo and his agent could work out an extension with Schlenk that both sides feels good about.

Still, it has to be acknowledged, the last time ATL had a similar situation was when they also sat in the catbird's seat as they negotiated against BOS for Horford, who was just a year older (30) than what Dipo will be next off-season (29). There are no guarantees, and so any trade would have to account for that possibility.

Effectively, I'm operating under the assumption that Schlenk is anticipating a serious assault on a championship beginning the season after next (2021-22), and continuing for 2-3 years after that. I'm also operating under the assumption that as a vaccine becomes available by early 2021, and that the NBA salary cap thresholds rebound within a year or two of that happening.

Theoretically, then, the team's rotation as they play in their first Eastern Conference Final in 2022 would consist of:

- Young (23)
- Oladipo (just turned 30)
- Reddish (22)
- Hunter (24)
- Collins (24)
- Capela (just turned 28)

That compares to the top 6 rotation (25+ minute players) for GSW's first Western Conference Final in the Curry era, 2014 (... cited b/c it represents the ATL GM's point of reference, given his association with that same team, and given everything he's told the media previously about how he thinks about roster construction):

- Curry (26)
- Thompson (24)
- Iguodala (30)
- Harrison Barnes (just turned 22)
- David Lee (31)
- Bogut (29)
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#15 » by Spud2nique » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:59 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Hoopz Afrik wrote:Both are fair and valid points. I can understand the apprehension.


Mind you, whoever holds Dipo's contract next off-season will hold his Bird rights, and of course, that gives a team a significant leg up on any other competitors if it came to that. I say "if it came to that," because there's always the possibility that Dipo and his agent could work out an extension with Schlenk that both sides feels good about.

Still, it has to be acknowledged, the last time ATL had a similar situation was when they also sat in the catbird's seat as they negotiated against BOS for Horford, who was just a year older (30) than what Dipo will be next off-season (29). There are no guarantees, and so any trade would have to account for that possibility.

Effectively, I'm operating under the assumption that Schlenk is anticipating a serious assault on a championship beginning the season after next (2021-22), and continuing for 2-3 years after that. I'm also operating under the assumption that as a vaccine becomes available by early 2021, and that the NBA salary cap thresholds rebound within a year or two of that happening.

Theoretically, then, the team's rotation as they play in their first Eastern Conference Final in 2022 would consist of:

- Young (23)
- Oladipo (just turned 30)
- Reddish (22)
- Hunter (24)
- Collins (24)
- Capela (just turned 28)

That compares to the top 6 rotation (25+ minute players) for GSW's first Western Conference Final in the Curry era, 2014:

- Curry (26)
- Thompson (24)
- Iguodala (30)
- Harrison Barnes (just turned 22)
- David Lee (31)
- Bogut (29)


We aren’t the Scrubs (warriors) of the east. It’s not a copycat league anymore. Or at least if you are smart it shouldn’t be.
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Re: Assessing the trade targets mentioned in Hollinger interview (The Athletic) 

Post#16 » by Spud2nique » Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:09 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:
Hoopz Afrik wrote:Both are fair and valid points. I can understand the apprehension.


Mind you, whoever holds Dipo's contract next off-season will hold his Bird rights, and of course, that gives a team a significant leg up on any other competitors if it came to that. I say "if it came to that," because there's always the possibility that Dipo and his agent could work out an extension with Schlenk that both sides feels good about.

Still, it has to be acknowledged, the last time ATL had a similar situation was when they also sat in the catbird's seat as they negotiated against BOS for Horford, who was just a year older (30) than what Dipo will be next off-season (29). There are no guarantees, and so any trade would have to account for that possibility.

Effectively, I'm operating under the assumption that Schlenk is anticipating a serious assault on a championship beginning the season after next (2021-22), and continuing for 2-3 years after that. I'm also operating under the assumption that as a vaccine becomes available by early 2021, and that the NBA salary cap thresholds rebound within a year or two of that happening.

Theoretically, then, the team's rotation as they play in their first Eastern Conference Final in 2022 would consist of:

- Young (23)
- Oladipo (just turned 30)
- Reddish (22)
- Hunter (24)
- Collins (24)
- Capela (just turned 28)

That compares to the top 6 rotation (25+ minute players) for GSW's first Western Conference Final in the Curry era, 2014 (... cited b/c it represents the ATL GM's point of reference, given his association with that same team, and given everything he's told the media previously about how he thinks about roster construction):

- Curry (26)
- Thompson (24)
- Iguodala (30)
- Harrison Barnes (just turned 22)
- David Lee (31)
- Bogut (29)


Off topic here Sturt but did you see the Dansby walk off? You gotta love it.

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