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What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations)

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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#61 » by Jamaaliver » Fri May 6, 2022 3:03 am

Sitting back last off-season and refusing to consider upgrades was clearly the wrong move. It seems to be the consensus at this point.

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Alison Mastrangelo of WSB asked if the team became complacent; Ressler said the following:

"I think we were and are a young team getting to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. I do think that created a little bit of complacency this summer, frankly. I think at all levels, and again, I don't blame the players. I think ownership, I think front office, I think coaching staff, I think players might have all thought we were, as they say, 'just a small step away'."

Ressler continued his stream of consciousness, "And that is an interesting comment because that step that Trae had on the refs foot last season, it might have been a small step away. Because I thought we were playing the kind of magical basketball that could have taken us anywhere. So, I think we all jointly kind of looked at us as one step away. That's not - that won't happen again."

Ressler finished answering the question by saying, "I actually think it was complacency across this organization. Maybe for the right reasons because we all thought we were closer than we were. That's what this season told me. And the idea of having complacency before you win a championship. Maybe after we win one, I'll take a breath. But we're not going to have complacency again. I don't think at any level."
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Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:People aren't really thinking any of this through. They just want moves for the sake of making moves.


It's less about making moves for the sake of making moves, and more about being aggressive in shoring up our weaknesses. This is the most team success we've had in years, but there are clear holes to fix if we want to see improvement next season.

Dozens if teams make the Conf Finals one year and never make it back.

Why are we magically exempt when every other contender is making moves to improve their rosters?
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#62 » by dms269 » Fri May 6, 2022 3:20 pm

We really do need a 2nd star. It isn't Collins. I know he needs more touches but when your starting power forward averages less than 5 rpg in the playoffs, something is wrong.

I am not sue I get the idea of moving Collins+Capela for either AD or Gobert.

We need an offensive weapon at a guard position. Someone who can go out and score 20+ and take over a game if Trae is off. Hurter shot 36% this playoffs.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#63 » by CP War Hawks » Fri May 6, 2022 6:15 pm

The Hawks really needs to get Collins going circa 2020. At his best he's close to a 20 and 10 player on efficient usage. At that point his value will help bring in a 2nd star. Maybe someone of interest from San Antonio and their top guards.

Reading between the lines, upper management wants a guy in the mold of SGA around Trae.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#64 » by jayu70 » Fri May 6, 2022 10:24 pm

Regarding running it back, I think they expectation was the wings would take the next step and at least one of them would step forward as THE CONSISTENT GUY. None did - Bogi ran hot and cold and with injuries, Huerter took a step back particularly on defense, Cam wanted out and Hunter got injured again.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#65 » by D21 » Sat May 7, 2022 1:58 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:The Hawks really needs to get Collins going circa 2020. At his best he's close to a 20 and 10 player on efficient usage. At that point his value will help bring in a 2nd star. Maybe someone of interest from San Antonio and their top guards.

Reading between the lines, upper management wants a guy in the mold of SGA around Trae.


SGA would help on offense, I'm pretty sure about that, but a Young-SGA defense would be... every media talk about SGA like a star that shine on both ends of the floor... since years ago... but I never saw such a thing.
Offense, yes. Defense, they were far better in defense when he was on the bench the last season they were good (with Paul and Schröder)

dms269 wrote:We really do need a 2nd star. It isn't Collins. I know he needs more touches but when your starting power forward averages less than 5 rpg in the playoffs, something is wrong...

He was playing injured, maybe that's what is wrong.
I totally agree with you that he's not a star, even if he has still some potential to improve. He's young, and can work on his game.

What I don't understand how many times this team has brought back players too much soon. They either get injured again, or are at 50% at best, and guess what, it's when they are on the floor that the team is at its worst, and it's just what happened in the playoffs
Hawks were at their worst when they played Collins and Capela

Results : instead of fighting with the healthy guys, they kill the few chances they have to win a game, and more important: since they played, everybody is talking about what the team done like these guys were perfectly healthy, and say "oh this team has a serious problem, they are no great player..."
Playing injured player is the biggest problem, instead of letting other getting experience, it's just a double negative effect.

Collins is a 8.7rbd guy in playoffs (last season) with Capela at 11.2rbd (last season). These numbers are more real, the numbers from this season are nothing at all.

And I say that while asking myself if they should not send both for Gobert.

The real thing that was wrong this playoffs is how is it possible that Young made the same TO than AST number, and it includes the fact that he couldn't send the ball to both injured Collins and Capela like he used to.
We know that, we need to be sure of the other reasons.

For what it's worth, look at the net rating in this MIA series: why playing Collins and Capela? I said it after game3, "don't bring back Capela if he's injured, they won a game without him and they will be worst with him"

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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#66 » by CP War Hawks » Sat May 7, 2022 7:11 pm

D21 wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:The Hawks really needs to get Collins going circa 2020. At his best he's close to a 20 and 10 player on efficient usage. At that point his value will help bring in a 2nd star. Maybe someone of interest from San Antonio and their top guards.

Reading between the lines, upper management wants a guy in the mold of SGA around Trae.


SGA would help on offense, I'm pretty sure about that, but a Young-SGA defense would be... every media talk about SGA like a star that shine on both ends of the floor... since years ago... but I never saw such a thing.
Offense, yes. Defense, they were far better in defense when he was on the bench the last season they were good (with Paul and Schröder)

dms269 wrote:We really do need a 2nd star. It isn't Collins. I know he needs more touches but when your starting power forward averages less than 5 rpg in the playoffs, something is wrong...

He was playing injured, maybe that's what is wrong.
I totally agree with you that he's not a star, even if he has still some potential to improve. He's young, and can work on his game.

What I don't understand how many times this team has brought back players too much soon. They either get injured again, or are at 50% at best, and guess what, it's when they are on the floor that the team is at its worst, and it's just what happened in the playoffs
Hawks were at their worst when they played Collins and Capela

Results : instead of fighting with the healthy guys, they kill the few chances they have to win a game, and more important: since they played, everybody is talking about what the team done like these guys were perfectly healthy, and say "oh this team has a serious problem, they are no great player..."
Playing injured player is the biggest problem, instead of letting other getting experience, it's just a double negative effect.

Collins is a 8.7rbd guy in playoffs (last season) with Capela at 11.2rbd (last season). These numbers are more real, the numbers from this season are nothing at all.

And I say that while asking myself if they should not send both for Gobert.

The real thing that was wrong this playoffs is how is it possible that Young made the same TO than AST number, and it includes the fact that he couldn't send the ball to both injured Collins and Capela like he used to.
We know that, we need to be sure of the other reasons.

For what it's worth, look at the net rating in this MIA series: why playing Collins and Capela? I said it after game3, "don't bring back Capela if he's injured, they won a game without him and they will be worst with him"

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I'm just going by Ressler's quote, and that guy may not be SGA in particular but one that can attack the rim regularly. That's why a deal involving KJ or Murray from SA can make sense but may need to involve Collins.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#67 » by Jamaaliver » Thu May 12, 2022 4:12 am

Most Intriguing 2022 NBA Free Agents

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Atlanta Hawks: Victor Oladipo

Atlanta Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk sounds like someone ready to shake up a roster he largely kept intact last offseason. The most substantive of those changes, though, will have to come via trade(s).

Kevin Huerter and Trae Young will be entering the first year of their respective extensions next season. Even if the Hawks waive Danilo Gallinari ($5 million guaranteed), they'll be working with the nontaxpayer mid-level. The math gets tighter if they hold onto him for salary-matching purposes on the trade market, or if they're married to bringing back Delon Wright.

Victor Oladipo is probably the ceiling on Atlanta's talent acquisition. His injury history is no doubt troublesome; he's averaged under 25 appearances per season over the past four years. But he's shown flashes of being the same downhill threat and capable defender since returning from his most recent right leg issue.

Slotting him alongside Young serves dual purposes. Oladipo's defensive peak is still useful (just ask James Harden), and he invites the Hawks to get their megastar floor general moving off the ball in the minutes they log together.

Clamor for higher-end (or historically healthier) options if you please. They aren't in Atlanta's price bracket. Oladipo is high-risk, high-reward and, equally important, presumably lower cost.
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Best Fits: Atlanta, Miami, Toronto

Right knee and quad issues have limited Victor Oladipo to just 96 regular-season appearances over the past four years, a track record of spotty availability that will remain at the forefront of his free agency. But he has flashed enough full-strength form during the Miami Heat's playoff push to expand his market, if not beyond mid-level-exception territory, then certainly to more teams within it.

Staying put makes a lot of sense. The Heat have Oladipo's Bird rights and will almost never need him to be more than their fourth- or fifth-best player.

The Atlanta Hawks could most definitely use the idea of Oladipo, a combo guard who jazzes up their minutes without Trae Young while also strengthening the defense and half-court ball-handling alongside him. Whether they can stomach his injury risk is a separate matter. Bringing back Delon Wright could be the cheaper and more bankable option.

Neither Atlanta nor Toronto will be a cap-space squad. Both should have the wiggle room to offer the full MLE, as well as the breathing room under the apron to consider sign-and-trade scenarios with Miami.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#68 » by D21 » Thu May 12, 2022 6:10 pm

I clearly would prefer to get a guy like Oladipo than Mitchell, but if it has to be done via trade, it also mean sending something to an already better MIA team. Best thing would be to see sign him but he may get more than the full MLE somewhere else
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#69 » by HMFFL » Fri May 13, 2022 12:28 am

D21 wrote:I clearly would prefer to get a guy like Oladipo than Mitchell, but if it has to be done via trade, it also mean sending something to an already better MIA team. Best thing would be to see sign him but he may get more than the full MLE somewhere else
Oladipo can't even stay healthy but believes he deserves max money. He demanded his way to Miami so I'm intrigued to see how he handles his future. It's always about the money with him. I don't believe he can be trusted.

Mitchell is the better option for us, but like Oladipo, I believe Mitchell is full of drama. I'd take him but I don't like how he's handled the Gobert situation. It's as if Gobert was being rumored out but Mirchell's camp is pressing hard to get out even more now. Probably waiting for the Knicks to get involved.

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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#70 » by D21 » Fri May 13, 2022 12:57 am

HMFFL wrote:
D21 wrote:I clearly would prefer to get a guy like Oladipo than Mitchell, but if it has to be done via trade, it also mean sending something to an already better MIA team. Best thing would be to see sign him but he may get more than the full MLE somewhere else
Oladipo can't even stay healthy but believes he deserves max money. He demanded his way to Miami so I'm intrigued to see how he handles his future. It's always about the money with him. I don't believe he can be trusted.

Mitchell is the better option for us, but like Oladipo, I believe Mitchell is full of drama. I'd take him but I don't like how he's handled the Gobert situation. It's as if Gobert was being rumored out but Mirchell's camp is pressing hard to get out even more now. Probably waiting for the Knicks to get involved.


I was only talking about the "on the court" part, and in case they would be both healthy :wink:
Just how they play, Oladipo is IMO a better fit, as I see Mitchell being a nightmare just by playing with this team

Among UTA starters, only Gobert got a positive Net rating in the first round, so all the people saying "once in playoffs, they can't dominate with Gobert, etc." were completely wrong. They can't win because of the other guys, including Mitchell
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#71 » by Geaux_Hawks » Fri May 13, 2022 11:52 am

I just don't see how Mitchell helps us unless he's coming off the bench being a super sub 6th man. Basically rotating Trae and Mitchell on and off the floor. Which could work, but the realization is that Mitchell and Trae will be making 60+ million and rising next year. That's a big investment for having 2 guys that you may not want on the floor together. You'd still have the need for having more quality defenders on the floor at all times.

Malcolm Brogdon to me is the guy we need to pursue this off-season. Quality defender, good-great shooter, secondary ball handler, and not overly expensive. And I hate to do it(Not really), but going after Ben Simmons should be another move we make. You want to add all around defense, playmaking, ability to attack the rim and play above it, plus still maintain a lob threat, then he brings all of that.

Adding those 2 upgrades the bench by sending Huerter there, and you can ultimately use MLE money to bring in another guy. Say a Otto Porter. Still have guys like JJ, OO, maybe bring back Delon. Does Galo take less to come back after being waived? I'd feel really confident with that group of players. Find acheap big body to throw at big centers. Wouldn't be a bad lineup overall.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#72 » by D21 » Fri May 13, 2022 12:47 pm

I would also prefer Brogdon, but he also had injury problems. This team was an injury nightmare these last to seasons, maybe it's time to check the training staff before any trade discussions...

And after watching DAL-PHX game 6, I just thought that if we don't keep Delon, adding Frank Ntilikina on the bench could be a good move among the low cost option. He's doing good defense, they would just have to find how to include him in the offense
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#73 » by jayu70 » Fri May 13, 2022 2:23 pm

D21 wrote:I would also prefer Brogdon, but he also had injury problems. This team was an injury nightmare these last to seasons, maybe it's time to check the training staff before any trade discussions...

And after watching DAL-PHX game 6, I just thought that if we don't keep Delon, adding Frank Ntilikina on the bench could be a good move among the low cost option. He's doing good defense, they would just have to find how to include him in the offense

Yes, injury prone and had issues with Nate and his offense in Indy
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#74 » by jayu70 » Fri May 13, 2022 2:25 pm

If the Spurs make Dejounte Murray available, Hawks should be interested.
He can play SG, ball handler, scorer, defense and rebounding.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#75 » by tbhawksfan1 » Fri May 13, 2022 5:43 pm

Despite many things not going right for the Hawks this season, Nate had a terrible season and worse playoffs
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#76 » by CP War Hawks » Fri May 13, 2022 8:39 pm

jayu70 wrote:If the Spurs make Dejounte Murray available, Hawks should be interested.
He can play SG, ball handler, scorer, defense and rebounding.


I mean yeah, but he's made himself into an all star they've been waiting on. Idk that he's on the market. Keldon Johnson, Vassel are the guys that works which likely includes Collins.

Regarding Mitchell, i trust he can get back to his previous years. He's kinda big for his height and could lose a few. I'm sure on the Hawks roster compliments his game better than in Utah.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#77 » by Years90Suns » Fri May 13, 2022 10:02 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Sitting back last off-season and refusing to consider upgrades was clearly the wrong move. It seems to be the consensus at this point.

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Alison Mastrangelo of WSB asked if the team became complacent; Ressler said the following:

"I think we were and are a young team getting to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. I do think that created a little bit of complacency this summer, frankly. I think at all levels, and again, I don't blame the players. I think ownership, I think front office, I think coaching staff, I think players might have all thought we were, as they say, 'just a small step away'."

Ressler continued his stream of consciousness, "And that is an interesting comment because that step that Trae had on the refs foot last season, it might have been a small step away. Because I thought we were playing the kind of magical basketball that could have taken us anywhere. So, I think we all jointly kind of looked at us as one step away. That's not - that won't happen again."

Ressler finished answering the question by saying, "I actually think it was complacency across this organization. Maybe for the right reasons because we all thought we were closer than we were. That's what this season told me. And the idea of having complacency before you win a championship. Maybe after we win one, I'll take a breath. But we're not going to have complacency again. I don't think at any level."
May 2022




Jamaaliver wrote:
kg01 wrote:People aren't really thinking any of this through. They just want moves for the sake of making moves.


It's less about making moves for the sake of making moves, and more about being aggressive in shoring up our weaknesses. This is the most team success we've had in years, but there are clear holes to fix if we want to see improvement next season.

Dozens if teams make the Conf Finals one year and never make it back.

Why are we magically exempt when every other contender is making moves to improve their rosters?
July 2021



When the wagon gets stacked, some people will tell you what the problem with one of the wheels was... (shhh, never before... ).
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#78 » by Yungsta404 » Sat May 14, 2022 10:27 pm

Geaux_Hawks wrote:I just don't see how Mitchell helps us unless he's coming off the bench being a super sub 6th man. Basically rotating Trae and Mitchell on and off the floor. Which could work, but the realization is that Mitchell and Trae will be making 60+ million and rising next year. That's a big investment for having 2 guys that you may not want on the floor together. You'd still have the need for having more quality defenders on the floor at all times.

Malcolm Brogdon to me is the guy we need to pursue this off-season. Quality defender, good-great shooter, secondary ball handler, and not overly expensive. And I hate to do it(Not really), but going after Ben Simmons should be another move we make. You want to add all around defense, playmaking, ability to attack the rim and play above it, plus still maintain a lob threat, then he brings all of that.

Adding those 2 upgrades the bench by sending Huerter there, and you can ultimately use MLE money to bring in another guy. Say a Otto Porter. Still have guys like JJ, OO, maybe bring back Delon. Does Galo take less to come back after being waived? I'd feel really confident with that group of players. Find acheap big body to throw at big centers. Wouldn't be a bad lineup overall.



I agree a guard like Malcom Brogdon compliments this team much better than Mitchell and fits Schlenk's philsophy of surrounding Trae with tall wings that can help cover his defensive weaknesses.

A mitchell/trae backcourt makes us Dillard/CJ Mcollum pt2 and creates a massive hole defensive which we already struggle with. In the playoffs, just about every top team in the east have big guards/wings that would have match up advantages against us that can be easily exploited. Boston (Jaylen Brown/Jayson Tatum), Sixers (Harden), Bucks (Holiday/Middleton), Heat (Butler) etc..
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#79 » by Catchall » Sat May 14, 2022 11:13 pm

dms269 wrote:We really do need a 2nd star. It isn't Collins. I know he needs more touches but when your starting power forward averages less than 5 rpg in the playoffs, something is wrong.

I am not sue I get the idea of moving Collins+Capela for either AD or Gobert.

We need an offensive weapon at a guard position. Someone who can go out and score 20+ and take over a game if Trae is off. Hurter shot 36% this playoffs.


I could see this being discussed between the two teams. Not sure if it would happen:

Jazz trade: Gobert, Clarkson, 2RP
Hawks trade: Capella, Collins, Huerter, FRP

Gobert anchors your defense and plays off of Trae. Clarkson comes off the bench at the 1 or the 2.
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Re: What direction do the Hawks go now? (Offseason Meditations) 

Post#80 » by Years90Suns » Mon May 16, 2022 9:12 pm

I do not think the way to improve the team is trading Collins.
I believe winning teams are based on two main things:
- stability. A roster needs to have the same core for a few years in order to be in a position to be successful. I agree that you can improve little pieces, or some pieces, and you can add a star. But never by giving up certain other pieces that make your team special, or different. For me it is much better to wait, train, develop and get chemistry.
Look at what the Celtics have accomplish, with a very good chance to go to the Finals and winning. They have developed chemistry by keeping together Tatum, Brown, Smart... they have taught Smart how to be a very useful player: a star on thr defensive end, with some shooting and being strong. Then they did not break the couple Tatum-Brown, while a few experts were explaining that was the way to go. They are one of the four best teams already and they are playing with Horford, a PF/C who was not useful to us - Williams: a 6-6 PF with very short arms - Williams III: a lot of injuries lately and cannot shoot from two inches - Theis: can shoot but cannot do many more things...

- doing something different really well: whatever it would be: passing, defense, tempo, shooting, running...

-

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