Rebuild reality and doin it right

[tbhawksfan1]

I understand that you're frustrated, but let's not start generalizing groups of people.

-ATL Boy

[tbhawksfan1]

Looks like we're dealing with a lot of the rebuild REALITY here and not much of the doin it right

[dms269]

I will never be sure that we couldn't keep the magic of the previous season with better free agency.
The following season, we had Splitter counting in the cap for nearly nothing.
Then, don't forget that the plan Bud was hoping was adding Howard, to fix the rebound problem, but not with loosing Horford or Millsap, or that if one was traded, that some good pieces would come here.
He certainly would have prefered to sacrifice Bazermore to keep both Horford and Millsap and add Howard, and play with the three guys in rotation, than loosing Horford.

I put a lot of the blame on us trying to hold onto the glory on Bud. Bud was PBO when he decided not to trade Horford. He was PBO when he didn't max Horford. He was PBO when he didn't shop Millsap (the rumors "upset" the locker room). Bud felt it was in his best interest to not trade these players and rebuild because it would hurt not only his image, but his chance at winning games. Bud was also the one who gave Kent that contract.

If people want to give Schlenk a "B" for his moves so far, then Budcox should get a D at best.

[D21]

I will never be sure that we couldn't keep the magic of the previous season with better free agency.
The following season, we had Splitter counting in the cap for nearly nothing.
Then, don't forget that the plan Bud was hoping was adding Howard, to fix the rebound problem, but not with loosing Horford or Millsap, or that if one was traded, that some good pieces would come here.
He certainly would have prefered to sacrifice Bazermore to keep both Horford and Millsap and add Howard, and play with the three guys in rotation, than loosing Horford.

I put a lot of the blame on us trying to hold onto the glory on Bud. Bud was PBO when he decided not to trade Horford. He was PBO when he didn't max Horford. He was PBO when he didn't shop Millsap (the rumors "upset" the locker room). Bud felt it was in his best interest to not trade these players and rebuild because it would hurt not only his image, but his chance at winning games. Bud was also the one who gave Kent that contract.

If people want to give Schlenk a "B" for his moves so far, then Budcox should get a D at best.

I separate the coach Bud and the PBO Bud. Coach is great, but I didn't like the PBO part. Now, I think it came from a poor management ahead of him, and they should have name another person for this.
And don't forget they seemed to never be on the same page with Wilcox, so how are you sure it was not Wilcox (and owners) pushing for Bazemore ?
What I saw in the Bazemore signing was a move to please the crowd, as he was a fan base favorite, and they need it to make people forget about the scooting report debacle, a thing Bud as a coach couldn't care less.
And Bud said he wanted "addition", not a change of players

[Yungsta404]

I will never be sure that we couldn't keep the magic of the previous season with better free agency.
The following season, we had Splitter counting in the cap for nearly nothing.
Then, don't forget that the plan Bud was hoping was adding Howard, to fix the rebound problem, but not with loosing Horford or Millsap, or that if one was traded, that some good pieces would come here.
He certainly would have prefered to sacrifice Bazermore to keep both Horford and Millsap and add Howard, and play with the three guys in rotation, than loosing Horford.

I put a lot of the blame on us trying to hold onto the glory on Bud. Bud was PBO when he decided not to trade Horford. He was PBO when he didn't max Horford. He was PBO when he didn't shop Millsap (the rumors "upset" the locker room). Bud felt it was in his best interest to not trade these players and rebuild because it would hurt not only his image, but his chance at winning games. Bud was also the one who gave Kent that contract.

If people want to give Schlenk a "B" for his moves so far, then Budcox should get a D at best.

I separate the coach Bud and the PBO Bud. Coach is great, but I didn't like the PBO part. Now, I think it came from a poor management ahead of him, and they should have name another person for this.
And don't forget they seemed to never be on the same page with Wilcox, so how are you sure it was not Wilcox (and owners) pushing for Bazemore ?
What I saw in the Bazemore signing was a move to please the crowd, as he was a fan base favorite, and they need it to make people forget about the scooting report debacle, a thing Bud as a coach couldn't care less.
And Bud said he wanted "addition", not a change of players

We kept Bazemore because he was our only option at SF who could play starter mins and Bud still wanted to compete. Simple as that.

After Bazemore, all we had was 35 yr old korver, 32 year old thabo who couldn't player more than 20 mins without getting injured and THJ who was a huge flop after Bud burned a first rounder for him.

[dms269]

I will never be sure that we couldn't keep the magic of the previous season with better free agency.
The following season, we had Splitter counting in the cap for nearly nothing.
Then, don't forget that the plan Bud was hoping was adding Howard, to fix the rebound problem, but not with loosing Horford or Millsap, or that if one was traded, that some good pieces would come here.
He certainly would have prefered to sacrifice Bazermore to keep both Horford and Millsap and add Howard, and play with the three guys in rotation, than loosing Horford.

I put a lot of the blame on us trying to hold onto the glory on Bud. Bud was PBO when he decided not to trade Horford. He was PBO when he didn't max Horford. He was PBO when he didn't shop Millsap (the rumors "upset" the locker room). Bud felt it was in his best interest to not trade these players and rebuild because it would hurt not only his image, but his chance at winning games. Bud was also the one who gave Kent that contract.

If people want to give Schlenk a "B" for his moves so far, then Budcox should get a D at best.

I separate the coach Bud and the PBO Bud. Coach is great, but I didn't like the PBO part. Now, I think it came from a poor management ahead of him, and they should have name another person for this.
And don't forget they seemed to never be on the same page with Wilcox, so how are you sure it was not Wilcox (and owners) pushing for Bazemore ?
What I saw in the Bazemore signing was a move to please the crowd, as he was a fan base favorite, and they need it to make people forget about the scooting report debacle, a thing Bud as a coach couldn't care less.
And Bud said he wanted "addition", not a change of players

Maybe it was higher ups but as PBO, Bud made decisions. I see the Bazemore deal as an attempt to hold onto that 60 win season. You already lost DMC the season before and I feel Bud was determined not to lose another of his wings.

As a PBO and Coach, Bud was never going to make the decision to rebuild. If he wasn't fired from that role I could have seen him maxing Millsap and us running with a Dennis/Bazemore/Prince/Millsap/Howard lineup again, finishing around 7th or 8th and exiting in the first round.

[tbhawksfan1]

Bud is the past , we have new problems

[tbhawksfan1]

There is only one way to increace long-term attendance in ATL and that is to win.Develop a true culture based on direcction. Ressler doesn't care because he will make his no matter and he can rake in a few extra mil by being cheap and throwing out a few shinny gimmicks.

[tbhawksfan1]

Ferry was the only example of that (culture based on direction) we"ve ever had but he was in ownership hell and exposed some stupid sides of himself. Oh and he was pure crap with the draft.

What will it take for the Hawks to get it right...?

[macd-gm]

We're hindsighting the hell out this thread. Of course, knowing that Horford was leaving we would have traded him but we didn't know that. And if we had traded him to Boston we'd all be sitting here going: "look how Horford is the friggin mvp of Boston. Bud was such an idiot to trade him"

[tbhawksfan1]

We're hindsighting the hell out this thread. Of course, knowing that Horford was leaving we would have traded him but we didn't know that. And if we had traded him to Boston we'd all be sitting here going: "look how Horford is the friggin mvp of Boston. Bud was such an idiot to trade him"

We'd have been able to take solace in the FRPs he should have brought back

[tbhawksfan1]

That is exactly the reason I'm so unhappy with Ressler compromising the rebuild. We have already been there and done that to many times.


Build a championship team.

[tbhawksfan1]

How TS could have done this summer including draft:

I'm with him on the first 3 picks. Trae is a Hawk now and with DAL FRP I'm optimistic about the outcome of this trade. I think Trae+5-10 is better than Doncic.

Without imagining any pick swaps I'd also draft Heurter and Spellman. I would have jumped all the way up to Robinson's wingspan to nab a solid C with #34.

Trae + DAL FRP
Heurter
Spellman
Robinson

No Lin trade. Trade Deddmon, Moose and absorb bad 1-2 year contracts. Even doing the Smelo thing but without Schro and getting a sure FRP or more for Smelo's $27M. Dedmon Moose and a little cap gets us near FRP and mid second. Smelo the DEN 2022 FRP top 3 prot until conveys kinda thing.

With the spare change I bring in a vet big and PG.

Robinson / Kaba / Plumlee
Collins / Spellman / FA
Prince / Baze
Heurter / Dorsey / Bembrey
Schro / Trae / FA


Schro settles his court thing and maintains and increases his court value and is shopped before deadline.

Similar to TS, but better use of the cap resources and not 100% bailing on Schro

These were all very doable moves.

[dms269]

Here are some issues I see with your rebuild:
1. Kaba would have had to pay for a buyout.
2. Bazemore would need to start at the 2. If you want any hope of moving him, he needs to start.
3. I am very confused about the Melo deal. How are we getting pretty much an unprotected Denver pick in 2022?
4. If you feel that Dennis can rebuild his value, I guess you can keep him. I don't believe Dennis, on a tanking team, can rebuild his value.

[tbhawksfan1]

Here are some issues I see with your rebuild:
1. Kaba would have had to pay for a buyout.
2. Bazemore would need to start at the 2. If you want any hope of moving him, he needs to start.
3. I am very confused about the Melo deal. How are we getting pretty much an unprotected Denver pick in 2022?
4. If you feel that Dennis can rebuild his value, I guess you can keep him. I don't believe Dennis, on a tanking team, can rebuild his value.

1. and
2. Don't care about Baze am prepared to give him reduced minutes and play the future
3. Meant OKC of course
4. Problem is that TS greatly contributed to devaluing him.

[dms269]

Here are some issues I see with your rebuild:
1. Kaba would have had to pay for a buyout.
2. Bazemore would need to start at the 2. If you want any hope of moving him, he needs to start.
3. I am very confused about the Melo deal. How are we getting pretty much an unprotected Denver pick in 2022?
4. If you feel that Dennis can rebuild his value, I guess you can keep him. I don't believe Dennis, on a tanking team, can rebuild his value.

1. and
2. Don't care about Baze am prepared to give him reduced minutes and play the future
3. Meant OKC of course
4. Problem is that TS greatly contributed to devaluing him.

1. Just saying it means we would need to give him a much larger deal to compensate him for that.

3. I guess we could have played extreme hardball (reports are they wanted it to only be top 20 protected), but we then run the risk of them going to Sacramento for the deal or to just stretch Melo. The cap savings wouldn't have been as much, but it likely would have been better for them.
4. I don't see how that is the case. Schlenk didn't give him that deal. Schlenk didn't cause him to shoot .436 form the field or .290 from 3. I don't think Trae and Lin meant that Dennis' value plummeted across the league. I think Dennis' play, legal issues, and lack of maturity did that for us.

[tbhawksfan1]

I'll repeat; Schro deserves blame, but we just dumped, as a negative, a 24 year old 24 / 7 PG. Trae isn't the prob, Lin is.

Schro could have played a little less than 30 with a bit at PG giving Trae a perfect 20-25 minutes to start, then move Shro. 7 months to get out of the court issue and keep his on-court value. Hawks made his Hawks on-court value 0. That is the mistake. Lin moved was so bad in itself. That it made Schro have to move now is just inexcusable.

[dms269]

I can't see Dennis averaging 24/7. I feel our front office probably put feelers out on Dennis and found out quickly that no body wanted him. Lin didn't kill dennis' value, Dennis did that himself. Lin made Dennis expendable.

[MaceCase]

Dennis was in the best conditions he'd likely ever find in his career to average 24/7 last season yet fell woefully short. Can't really put much blame on Schlenk for Dennis continuing a trend that has been present for his whole career. I suppose he could have sat on Dennis hoping he'd shake many of his apparent worts but with either of Doncic or Trae you would have been in a position where someone's value would still be lowered.

[tbhawksfan1]

I think I meant 19.4 and 6.2. Still good .