Absurdly early 2018 NBA Draft Thread

[Bob8]

I agree and i'm also concern about Luka being slow, but on the other hand, Klay, Curry, Harden, Nash, Stockton, Bird, Peja are also not super athletes with Iverson quickness.

Speed helps, but elite ball handling can make a player more elusive then speed. Curry and Nash demonstrates that very well.

I think Luka has a shot at being a rich man's Hedo Turkoglu when Turk was playing point forward for the Magic.

Turkoglu avg. 13 points and 2.7 assists in Europe. Playing much more and being 21 years old. Doncic’s avg. is 18 points, 4.5 assists. Doncic is for sure much better passer. I would say Turkoglu can be his floor in Nba, but not ceiling.

Please read "whole" post before commenting.

you should underline “a shot at being” too.
I read that as, he’s ceiling is rich man’s Hedo. And I don’t agree.

[macd-gm]

Comparing to Euro players, Luka seems more like Kukoc than Hedo. Hedo was a pretty physical player. Also disagreeing that you can put Luka's speed and quickness anywhere near guys like Steph and Nash.

Went to the Tech game. Wanted to see how overrated Bagley was and then he didn't even play. Carter looked good but didn't overwhelm me as a great nba prospect. Of course Grayson Allen looked like he could have scored 50 against Tech if he had the green light. Nice job by Tech to get back in the game but they dug too big a hole. Duke has a ton of talent so we need to remember that with any thought of using a top 3 on Bagley. Let's not.

[Bob8]

Comparing to Euro players, Luka seems more like Kukoc than Hedo. Hedo was a pretty physical player. Also disagreeing that you can put Luka's speed and quickness anywhere near guys like Steph and Nash.

Went to the Tech game. Wanted to see how overrated Bagley was and then he didn't even play. Carter looked good but didn't overwhelm me as a great nba prospect. Of course Grayson Allen looked like he could have scored 50 against Tech if he had the green light. Nice job by Tech to get back in the game but they dug too big a hole. Duke has a ton of talent so we need to remember that with any thought of using a top 3 on Bagley. Let's not.

When we’re judging Doncic’s quickness and comparing it to Steph’s, we should compare how their body looks too. Imho Doncic is not that slow for 6’8.5”, 230 guy. He for sure won’t defend quick Pg’s. But on the other hands, small Pg’s can’t defend him either. He can post them all night long.
And like I said before, his body has a lot of room for improvement. In Europe training methods are very different than in Nba.

Kukoc had totally different type of body. Doncic can become very strong player.

[Jamaaliver]

NBA Mock Draft 2018: Would the Atlanta Hawks select DeAndre Ayton at No. 1 overall?

It may not be a decision the Hawks have to make but...



FiveThirtyEight projects the Atlanta Hawks to finish in a tie for the second-worst record in the NBA...at this point, there is plenty of uncertainty as to where the Hawks will eventually land.

Given that caveat, Sam Vecenie of The Athletic released an updated NBA Mock Draft places Atlanta in the top spot. That leaves every option on the table for GM Travis Schlenk and, according to this projection, the pick is Arizona big man DeAndre Ayton.

Ayton’s upside might be the deciding factor, even if it would be easy to make a coherent argument for Slovenian wing Luka Doncic based on safety and other factors. Ayton, though, has made the leap into a two-man tier (at least for me) alongside Doncic and the player at the top will greatly depend on the philosophy of the general manager and/or draft evaluator making the choice.

...there will be questions in terms of ultimate fit with Ayton and John Collins in Atlanta’s frontcourt but, as noted above, he is both versatile and dynamic and, given that Collins is not necessarily slotted into a positional role moving forward, the duo would likely succeed.

Peachtree Hoops

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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The Hawks are in the market for the best player available to build around for the next decade. While you can make the case that Luka Doncic fits well within their wing-dependent scheme, Deandre Ayton is who this evaluator believes has the highest upside in this draft.

Ayton not only gives a team a potential 20-and-10 All-Star, but he also keeps open every door available in terms of team-building because of his well-rounded skill set. He’s averaging 19.5 points and 10.8 rebounds while shooting almost 62 percent from the field and 35 percent from 3. There are some defensive concerns in terms of instincts, but Ayton has the tools to be a difference maker there, too, if he focuses on that end of the floor.

[Spud2nique]

I agree and i'm also concern about Luka being slow, but on the other hand, Klay, Curry, Harden, Nash, Stockton, Bird, Peja are also not super athletes with Iverson quickness.

Speed helps, but elite ball handling can make a player more elusive then speed. Curry and Nash demonstrates that very well.

I think Luka has a shot at being a rich man's Hedo Turkoglu when Turk was playing point forward for the Magic.

Turkoglu avg. 13 points and 2.7 assists in Europe. Playing much more and being 21 years old. Doncic’s avg. is 18 points, 4.5 assists. Doncic is for sure much better passer. I would say Turkoglu can be his floor in Nba, but not ceiling.

Please read "whole" post before commenting.

Rich...poor...or middle class..Doncic is none of those to Hedo....

MAAAAANN!!!! Y’all acting like you never watched Hedo...

[kg01]

Comparing to Euro players, Luka seems more like Kukoc than Hedo. Hedo was a pretty physical player. Also disagreeing that you can put Luka's speed and quickness anywhere near guys like Steph and Nash.

Went to the Tech game. Wanted to see how overrated Bagley was and then he didn't even play. Carter looked good but didn't overwhelm me as a great nba prospect. Of course Grayson Allen looked like he could have scored 50 against Tech if he had the green light. Nice job by Tech to get back in the game but they dug too big a hole. Duke has a ton of talent so we need to remember that with any thought of using a top 3 on Bagley. Let's not.

When we’re judging Doncic’s quickness and comparing it to Steph’s, we should compare how their body looks too. Imho Doncic is not that slow for 6’8.5”, 230 guy. He for sure won’t defend quick Pg’s. But on the other hands, small Pg’s can’t defend him either. He can post them all night long.
And like I said before, his body has a lot of room for improvement. In Europe training methods are very different than in Nba.

Kukoc had totally different type of body. Doncic can become very strong player.

But that's not going to happen. He'll be cross-matched with one of the opposing team's wings in which case his lack of quickness can certainly come into play.

It's certainly reasonable to question to what extent improved strength/conditioning will have. It's fair to say he could get an improved regime here but ... I mean what is he doing, eating twinkies and smokin' loosies all day over there? (aka the @spud diet)

[kg01]

Turkoglu avg. 13 points and 2.7 assists in Europe. Playing much more and being 21 years old. Doncic’s avg. is 18 points, 4.5 assists. Doncic is for sure much better passer. I would say Turkoglu can be his floor in Nba, but not ceiling.

Please read "whole" post before commenting.

Rich...poor...or middle class..Doncic is none of those to Hedo....

MAAAAANN!!!! Y’all acting like you never watched Hedo...

Shiiii, I watched Hedo carry that ORL team to the Finals .. #DwightShotsFired

Speaking of 'shots fired, I see your anti-GT shot @macd. And, no, Grayson wouldn'tve been able to hang a fifty-burger on us. Look, we're dealing with a lot lately all right!

[Spud2nique]

Comparing to Euro players, Luka seems more like Kukoc than Hedo. Hedo was a pretty physical player. Also disagreeing that you can put Luka's speed and quickness anywhere near guys like Steph and Nash.

Went to the Tech game. Wanted to see how overrated Bagley was and then he didn't even play. Carter looked good but didn't overwhelm me as a great nba prospect. Of course Grayson Allen looked like he could have scored 50 against Tech if he had the green light. Nice job by Tech to get back in the game but they dug too big a hole. Duke has a ton of talent so we need to remember that with any thought of using a top 3 on Bagley. Let's not.

When we’re judging Doncic’s quickness and comparing it to Steph’s, we should compare how their body looks too. Imho Doncic is not that slow for 6’8.5”, 230 guy. He for sure won’t defend quick Pg’s. But on the other hands, small Pg’s can’t defend him either. He can post them all night long.
And like I said before, his body has a lot of room for improvement. In Europe training methods are very different than in Nba.

Kukoc had totally different type of body. Doncic can become very strong player.

But that's not going to happen. He'll be cross-matched with one of the opposing team's wings in which case his lack of quickness can certainly come into play.

It's certainly reasonable to question to what extent improved strength/conditioning will have. It's fair to say he could get an improved regime here but ... I mean what is he doing, eating twinkies and smokin' loosies all day over there? (aka the @spud diet)

This is all your fault! Throwing out a lazy comparison like Hedo....shame on you. It only takes one person making one crappy comparison and the next 20 people follow suit....


Doncic is in a different class than Hedo here folks.....


BTW Not all of us can bbq in the sac daily and smoke stogies. Ftw wtf f..

[Spud2nique]

Please read "whole" post before commenting.

Rich...poor...or middle class..Doncic is none of those to Hedo....

MAAAAANN!!!! Y’all acting like you never watched Hedo...

Shiiii, I watched Hedo carry that ORL team to the Finals .. #DwightShotsFired

Speaking of 'shots fired, I see your anti-GT shot @macd. And, no, Grayson wouldn'tve been able to hang a fifty-burger on us. Look, we're dealing with a lot lately all right!

I suggest you go back and watch Hedo YouTube or whatever you need to do to help you realize this insanity..while ur at it..watch the big Lebowski for the first time...I mean you use the GIFS from the movie all the time..why not find out what it’s about.

[Bob8]

Comparing to Euro players, Luka seems more like Kukoc than Hedo. Hedo was a pretty physical player. Also disagreeing that you can put Luka's speed and quickness anywhere near guys like Steph and Nash.

Went to the Tech game. Wanted to see how overrated Bagley was and then he didn't even play. Carter looked good but didn't overwhelm me as a great nba prospect. Of course Grayson Allen looked like he could have scored 50 against Tech if he had the green light. Nice job by Tech to get back in the game but they dug too big a hole. Duke has a ton of talent so we need to remember that with any thought of using a top 3 on Bagley. Let's not.

When we’re judging Doncic’s quickness and comparing it to Steph’s, we should compare how their body looks too. Imho Doncic is not that slow for 6’8.5”, 230 guy. He for sure won’t defend quick Pg’s. But on the other hands, small Pg’s can’t defend him either. He can post them all night long.
And like I said before, his body has a lot of room for improvement. In Europe training methods are very different than in Nba.

Kukoc had totally different type of body. Doncic can become very strong player.

But that's not going to happen. He'll be cross-matched with one of the opposing team's wings in which case his lack of quickness can certainly come into play.

It's certainly reasonable to question to what extent improved strength/conditioning will have. It's fair to say he could get an improved regime here but ... I mean what is he doing, eating twinkies and smokin' loosies all day over there? (aka the @spud diet)

i just responded to comparison of his speed and Steph’s. Imho not many 6’8”, 230 guys are same quick as Steph. And they don’t need to be either.

In Europe training regime is different and especially 18 years old kids don’t train much with weights. He’s too heavy for his muscles at the moment and he’s lower body is not stronger enough. But that’s not the most difficult thing to improve.

[Jamaaliver]

I think an important question is what types of players Doncic will need surrounding him to prevent quicker, more athletic defenders from crowding him all day.

He worked well off-ball in Euroleague next to Goran Dragic. So that is always an option. (Vet PG with 3-pt range).

But I think I'd surround Luka with

A) a small ball 4 (a la Taurean)
B) an athletic 3&d SG and (Think Avery Bradley)
C) a combo guard who can occasionally initiate the offense or create their own shot (Think Victor Oladipo).

[kg01]

Rich...poor...or middle class..Doncic is none of those to Hedo....

MAAAAANN!!!! Y’all acting like you never watched Hedo...

Shiiii, I watched Hedo carry that ORL team to the Finals .. #DwightShotsFired

Speaking of 'shots fired, I see your anti-GT shot @macd. And, no, Grayson wouldn'tve been able to hang a fifty-burger on us. Look, we're dealing with a lot lately all right!

I suggest you go back and watch Hedo YouTube or whatever you need to do to help you realize this insanity..while ur at it..watch the big Lebowski for the first time...I mean you use the GIFS from the movie all the time..why not find out what it’s about.

On Hedo being a bad comp ...



I honestly don't get why you think it's a bad comp. Honestly.

[Bob8]

I think an important question is what types of players Doncic will need surrounding him to prevent quicker, more athletic defenders from crowding him all day.

He worked well off-ball in Euroleague next to Goran Dragic. So that is always an option. (Vet PG with 3-pt range).

But I think I'd surround Luka with

A) a small ball 4 (a la Taurean)
B) an athletic 3&d SG and (Think Avery Bradley)
C) a combo guard who can occasionally initiate the offense or create their own shot (Think Victor Oladipo).

good defensive guard (beverley), good shooters and good pick&roll C.

[Jamaaliver]

I think an important question is what types of players Doncic will need surrounding him to prevent quicker, more athletic defenders from crowding him all day.

He worked well off-ball in Euroleague next to Goran Dragic. So that is always an option. (Vet PG with 3-pt range).

But I think I'd surround Luka with

A) a small ball 4 (a la Taurean)
B) an athletic 3&d SG and (Think Avery Bradley)
C) a combo guard who can occasionally initiate the offense or create their own shot (Think Victor Oladipo).

good defensive guard (beverley), good shooters and good pick&roll C.

1) Beverley would be an ideal mate for him, skill wise.

2) I still think their needs to be a secondary creator on the court, otherwise teams can just force the ball out of Luka's hands early--leaving only jump shooters to run the offense.

(Our team has already [been] in the bottom half of the league for offense for the last 3 seasons, in part, because we are too dependent on jump shooting.)

[ATL Boy]

Everything I've seen mock draft wise lately is just annihilating my hopes of Dzanan Musa being a Hawk via our Wolves pick next season. Looks like he's played himself into the teens according to the projections.


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[Jamaaliver]

Everything I've seen mock draft wise lately is just annihilating my hopes of Dzanan Musa being a Hawk via our Wolves pick next season. Looks like he's played himself into the teens according to the projections.

1. Yeah, I've noticed that as well.

2. If we fall out of top 3, I still think Travis might trade out of #4 or #5, getting a lower lottery pick and maybe an extra pick in the teens. (Phoenix and Chicago currently own two top 20 picks in this draft.)

So, it is indeed unlikely. But there is some hope.

[Jamaaliver]

Today's mock draft from Sports Illustrated.

2. Atlanta Hawks Hawks | Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid

Height: 6'8" | Weight: 220 | Age: 18 | Last: 2

The Hawks aren’t tied down to much of anything on their roster beyond John Collins, and are in search of a foundational player. Doncic’s talent is no secret, and he’d be able to take over the offense right away. With his ability to read the floor and see over defenses, he’ll be able to make others better and benefit from additional space to operate.

The question is whether you see Doncic as your franchise player long-term, or project him more as your second or third-best guy. His ceiling will be tied to his individual shot creation (and whether he can shoulder a superstar’s workload), or if he’s best-suited playing off a star teammate at the NBA level. He’s a safe bet to produce great value among the top picks and won’t fall far, if at all.

SI.com

[jayu70]

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[Spud2nique]

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I love this game!

[MaceCase]

Shiiii, I watched Hedo carry that ORL team to the Finals .. #DwightShotsFired

Speaking of 'shots fired, I see your anti-GT shot @macd. And, no, Grayson wouldn'tve been able to hang a fifty-burger on us. Look, we're dealing with a lot lately all right!

I suggest you go back and watch Hedo YouTube or whatever you need to do to help you realize this insanity..while ur at it..watch the big Lebowski for the first time...I mean you use the GIFS from the movie all the time..why not find out what it’s about.

On Hedo being a bad comp ...



I honestly don't get why you think it's a bad comp. Honestly.

It's not a bad comp unless you want to get your panties in a wad over Hedo's career stats and even then he still managed to peak at 20 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 assists on 40% from 3 and 45FG%. I think we'd all be more than enamored with a guy who could consistently put up 20-6-5 on that type of efficiency in the NBA.

Stylistically they are very similar as point-forwards, I'd say Hedo was better off the ball spotting up but on the ball him and Doncic have a very similar methodical style of play that leads to some wild yet effective pull up jumpers. Hedo had similar question marks about his athleticism too yet still managed to develop into a plus man defender and clutch scorer.

What's lazy are those that want to look at Luka's statistical output and based solely on that crown him as a unicorn because it's unprecedented in Europe. There's nothing about his tools and abilities that hasn't been seen before in a 6'8" package, he just has a great knack and feel for the game for someone that young but when it comes to evaluating prospects the 'how they do it' always outweighs the 'what they did'.