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Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#121 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:06 pm

jayu70 wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:
jayu70 wrote:How can it be duplicated when it just happened last season and we are not halfway through THIS season.
At least let it play out.
Even if we do as you suggest and move Teague and Al for PICKS - how do we duplicate the 60 wins and ECF this season or even next?

I havent seen the JAN hawks in 60+ games? (including playoffs).

Does the team resemble that team at all right now?

So how does trading Al and Teague give you the JAN Hawks? What if we get APRIL Hawks?
I'm more concerned with making another trip to the ECFs than 60 wins.

It doesnt, but maybe it gets you some 1st round picks you can hit on or trade for other pieces.

Im basically saying im not really interested in this team getting bounced in the 2nd round just to re-up with the exact same team next year at a higher price.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#122 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:06 pm

PandaKidd wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:-How in the world would we be better off with letting Millsap walk?

-Noah is finished

-It was impossible to keep both Demarre and Paul and Bud made the right choice on the one to keep.

I agree with your premise that this could end up being a treadmill team if this nucleus stays; however, I have to disagree with pretty much every other point. We have several nice pieces and it would be foolish to blow it up and chase the lottery for who knows how many years. We have better odds of becoming a contender by getting lucky and finding that missing piece through FA or the draft than we do starting from scratch.

I know it was impossible, but is this team really going to go over the cap into luxury to keep AH and Bazemore.

Do any of you realistically think that next season our starting 5 is:
Teague/DS
Baze
Thabo/Korver
PM
AH

and we are somehow better? I mean unless we trade Korver (whose value is falling off a cliff). Im not sure how we get over the "hump" if we keep the status quo and keep doing away with draft picks.

Im simply stating, Id rather go through a losing season or 2 and reboot. I know what im looking at, and its not beating LEBRON/CLE/ GSW/SPurs or any other western team in the next 2 yaers (as currently constructed)


and how do we reboot if we are incapable of luring free agents? Surely you don't think we can reboot through the draft in only 2 years.

Our style of play and Bud's track record of developing guys could easily interest a player that has the potential to turn in to a star under the right circumstances. Who is that player? I have no clue, but I think many players, especially wings, would be attracted to us after seeing Korver make the all-star team, Demarre get 60 million and the improvements from Baze.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#123 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:08 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:At this point, unless they drastically play MUCH different ive come to 2 conclusions:

1) Move Horford for something even draft picks (CALL BOSTON)
2) Trade teague even if its just Draft Picks.

We have no young talent in the pipeline, we have squandered draft choices outside of DS. You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

a front court of PM/AH with only hinging on DS being lightyears better than Teague, sorry, that isnt getting it done. Thabo is old and aging, Korver is not going to shoot like he did last year and is aging.

I think im gaining perspective on last year, and current ownership , IMO is scared to do a reboot or soft retool because of what happened last year. They are scared if we suck or are mediocre for 1-2 years they will lose all the credit they built up last year.


BINGO my man.

We've made choices the last couple of summers that have sealed our fate with this core. And unless we have another 17-0 month coming soon...or another 33-2 run in the bag, we likely won't separate ourselves from the Heat, Pacers, Bulls enough to guarantee an easy playoff run.


The thing about trading Horford is that he would not likely bring back top value in return.

Teague and Millsap however could. Millsap is playing great and has more years under contract. With Splitter on board, we can absorb the blow of losing PM in the meanwhile and demand high value for him in trade.

Remember, trade stocks at their highest, not their lowest.

if we were gonna trade Horford, it should have been done last summer.


The same Splitter who can barely play 15 minutes without sustaining an injury? Horford moves to PF and who backs up Splitter at C?

The truth is, in your scenario, Horford would stay at center and we would see a PF rotation of Scott/Muscala.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#124 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:10 pm

PandaKidd wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:At this point, unless they drastically play MUCH different ive come to 2 conclusions:

1) Move Horford for something even draft picks (CALL BOSTON)
2) Trade teague even if its just Draft Picks.

We have no young talent in the pipeline, we have squandered draft choices outside of DS. You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

a front court of PM/AH with only hinging on DS being lightyears better than Teague, sorry, that isnt getting it done. Thabo is old and aging, Korver is not going to shoot like he did last year and is aging.

I think im gaining perspective on last year, and current ownership , IMO is scared to do a reboot or soft retool because of what happened last year. They are scared if we suck or are mediocre for 1-2 years they will lose all the credit they built up last year.


BINGO my man.

We've made choices the last couple of summers that have sealed our fate with this core. And unless we have another 17-0 month coming soon...or another 33-2 run in the bag, we likely won't separate ourselves from the Heat, Pacers, Bulls enough to guarantee an easy playoff run.


The thing about trading Horford is that he would not likely bring back top value in return.

Teague and Millsap however could. Millsap is playing great and has more years under contract. With Splitter on board, we can absorb the blow of losing PM in the meanwhile and demand high value for him in trade.

Remember, trade stocks at their highest, not their lowest.

if we were gonna trade Horford, it should have been done last summer.

I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?


Teague has been a major disappointment this year but you CAN'T be serious. Why, so we can trade it for another THJr., John Jenkins, Bebe or Payne?
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#125 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:12 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
BINGO my man.

We've made choices the last couple of summers that have sealed our fate with this core. And unless we have another 17-0 month coming soon...or another 33-2 run in the bag, we likely won't separate ourselves from the Heat, Pacers, Bulls enough to guarantee an easy playoff run.


The thing about trading Horford is that he would not likely bring back top value in return.

Teague and Millsap however could. Millsap is playing great and has more years under contract. With Splitter on board, we can absorb the blow of losing PM in the meanwhile and demand high value for him in trade.

Remember, trade stocks at their highest, not their lowest.

if we were gonna trade Horford, it should have been done last summer.

I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?


Teague has been a major disappointment this year but you CAN'T be serious. Why, so we can trade it for another THJr., John Jenkins, Bebe or Payne?

so you admit we suck at draftin too :P
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#126 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:14 pm

PandaKidd wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?


Teague has been a major disappointment this year but you CAN'T be serious. Why, so we can trade it for another THJr., John Jenkins, Bebe or Payne?

so you admit we suck at draftin too :P


I thought that would be a common agreed upon fact amongst us Hawks fans, just as the reasons why we struggled, at times, in the playoffs were.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#127 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:17 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:The same Splitter who can barely play 15 minutes without sustaining an injury? Horford moves to PF and who backs up Splitter at C?

The truth is, in your scenario, Horford would stay at center and we would see a PF rotation of Scott/Muscala.


This is why you can't draft a Bebe and Adreian and then move them immediately for no legitimate value in return. Passing on Nurkic, Gorgui Dieng, Rudy Gobert, Festus Ezeli, Mason Plumlee leaves us unwilling to move players for top value because we simply don't have the depth to absorb the hit.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#128 » by jayu70 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:18 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?


That deadline is sometime this month. After mid-January, newly signed Free Agents from summer 2015 can indeed be traded.

jayu70 wrote:I'm more concerned with making another trip to the ECFs than 60 wins.


Is it really worth going all out to lose in the ECF to CLE again?

Is the season a success if we lose in Game 5 of the Finals this season but next season feature an aging lineup of over the hill substars?

Of course it will be a success in we lose in Game 5 of the Finals - the idea of sports is to have a chance to be in the big game when you have that opportunity.
So you would trade a chance to get to the Finals because you are worried about next season's roster. So the option is to trade Al and Teague and take the chance that a pick will propel us to the Finals after you've given up that chance right now? I gotta be in the twilight zone.
Two things:
Teams interested in Al on a rental for the remainder of this season would be more than likely a playoff team, meaning 'not a lottery pick'
Teague is slightly different - a team like the Bucks or Philly in need of a PG can send a young player and/or pick and we still not loose too much this season.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#129 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:28 pm

jayu70 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Is it really worth going all out to lose in the ECF to CLE again?

Is the season a success if we lose in Game 5 of the Finals this season but next season feature an aging lineup of over the hill substars?

Of course it will be a success in we lose in Game 5 of the Finals - the idea of sports is to have a chance to be in the big game when you have that opportunity.
So you would trade a chance to get to the Finals because you are worried about next season's roster. So the option is to trade Al and Teague and take the chance that a pick will propel us to the Finals after you've given up that chance right now? I gotta be in the twilight zone.
Two things:
Teams interested in Al on a rental for the remainder of this season would be more than likely a playoff team, meaning 'not a lottery pick'
Teague is slightly different - a team like the Bucks or Philly in need of a PG can send a young player and/or pick and we still not loose too much this season.


Forgive me. I meant to type lose in Game 5 of the ECF. I don't believe in putting all our time/energy/money into a team that has no chance at beating LeBron.

Teague's value to Philly, Bucks, Jazz, Rockets is undeniable. We should be looking hard at moving JT0 for value. Teague for Gordon Hayward, Dario Saric, Khris Middleton or the assets of Terrence Jones & Donatas Motiejunas could prove valuable moving forward.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#130 » by MaceCase » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:39 pm

PandaKidd wrote:[
Look im just going by my eye test.

Your eye test should extend to the rest of the East as well then. Nobody "looks" better than the Hawks except the Cavaliers. If you people are honestly crying over not being able to beat one opponent as reasoning to blow up a team then I suggest you follow badminton instead because the entirety of professional sports doesn't follow your logic. The majority of competition doesn't even follow this logic of "oh I can't be the best so why even try".

PandaKidd wrote:
In your scenario these are yuor starters:
TEAGUE/DS (If Teague isnt traded hes here next year, if hes traded DS is your starter)
Paul Millsap
Al Horford
Kent bazemore

Those guys are being signed for STARTING pay. Period. so the only spot left is SF/SG, of which, you have Korver AND THABO on the books already. You also have Splitter on the books.

Theres not much room to bring in anyone unless you are moving someone off my list to the bench.

So ..............who is it?

Ok so we dont resign Bazemore and we sign...........who? Find me a SG who drastically changes this team.

This is your scenario, not mine. I have simply pointed out to you that you have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of understanding of the cap and that therefore every inference you are making in regards to it is awfully misinformed. I literally pointed out to you that the cap next year is projected to be close to 110 million and yet you are still crying over this 71 million figure (which of course is subject to change given that a few will be free agents) you've arbitrarily chosen as though it's significant. I've pointed that the Hawks currently can have anywhere between 34 million and 9 million in cap space, Bird rights, 3 draft picks, 2 stashes, unguaranteed contracts, tradeable assets and oh, btw, a current top team but you think yelling "SET" somehow makes it anymore true. Give me tonight's powerball numbers while you're at it, yell them into existence.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#131 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:41 pm

This is where im at right now........

If this team made the ECF again, and lost to LBJ in game 6, i would be ok with reupping everyone and look at improving the bench.

if we made the Finals, I would feel the same way.

I personally do not see that happening. Dont call me a negative nancy, im not saying the hawks SUCK or we can never win, I just dont see us getting good enough to beat the east. 3rd in Mid January doesnt tickle my fancy.

Again, to be fair AGAINST me, theres like 3 teams people think will win , CLE, GSW, SPURS.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#132 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:43 pm

MaceCase wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:[
Look im just going by my eye test.

Your eye test should extend to the rest of the East as well then. Nobody "looks" better than the Hawks except the Cavaliers. If you people are honestly crying over not being able to beat one opponent as reasoning to blow up a team then I suggest you follow badminton instead because the entirety of professional sports doesn't follow your logic. The majority of competition doesn't even follow this logic of "oh I can't be the best so why even try".

PandaKidd wrote:
In your scenario these are yuor starters:
TEAGUE/DS (If Teague isnt traded hes here next year, if hes traded DS is your starter)
Paul Millsap
Al Horford
Kent bazemore

Those guys are being signed for STARTING pay. Period. so the only spot left is SF/SG, of which, you have Korver AND THABO on the books already. You also have Splitter on the books.

Theres not much room to bring in anyone unless you are moving someone off my list to the bench.

So ..............who is it?

Ok so we dont resign Bazemore and we sign...........who? Find me a SG who drastically changes this team.

This is your scenario, not mine. I have simply pointed out to you that you have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of understanding of the cap and that therefore every inference you are making in regards to it is awfully misinformed. I literally pointed out to you that the cap next year is projected to be close to 110 million and yet you are still crying over this 71 million figure (which of course is subject to change given that a few will be free agents) you've arbitrarily chosen as though it's significant. I've pointed that the Hawks currently can have anywhere between 34 million and 9 million in cap space, Bird rights, 3 draft picks, 2 stashes, unguaranteed contracts, tradeable assets and oh, btw, a current top team but you think yelling "SET" somehow makes it anymore true. Give me tonight's powerball numbers while you're at it, yell them into existence.

I understand the cap just fine, you just keep missing the point.

forget 71 million.

You said "WE can resign Bazemore and go over the cap to sign AH" correct?

Lets assume that happens.

I just named you the starters, that team is this team all over again, because you ALREADY have Korver AND THABO on the books.

Again, i ask you, WHO ARE YOU SIGNING to take this team the next level. Ill wait your response.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#133 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:44 pm

Mace thinks we can sign Durant to come off the bench i guess LOL

Lets take it a step further

Lets sign that 71 million and throw in a Derozan or some other big time FA that makes 20 25 million.

My point is, and you keep missing it , is that you are going to sign major contracts to guys YOU ARE ALREADY STARTING who arent good enough to win a championship.

Do you believe this team can win a championship? If you say yes, we have nothing further to discuss. 8-)
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#134 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:50 pm

MaceCase wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:[
Look im just going by my eye test.

Your eye test should extend to the rest of the East as well then. Nobody "looks" better than the Hawks except the Cavaliers. If you people are honestly crying over not being able to beat one opponent as reasoning to blow up a team then I suggest you follow badminton instead because the entirety of professional sports doesn't follow your logic. The majority of competition doesn't even follow this logic of "oh I can't be the best so why even try".


I wish tehy gave out awards in Jan lolol

Hey man if you think they are good enough, then by all means. I dont think they are. I didnt think they were last year.

They got the easiest path to the ECF with depleted teams and injuries. Its still the ECF. I was happy.

East is better this year, CLE is better this year, we are NOT better this year IMO, something has to give.

you harping on the 71 million is about as idiotic as claiming the hawks are a top east team in JAN when 3 games could have them OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS. :crazy:
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#135 » by MaceCase » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:59 pm

Yes, the natural logical progression from "we can re-sign Bazemore" is "we can sign Durant too" "lol".

No you don't get the cap otherwise you wouldn't have made that terrible mistake with DeMarre's free agency in the first place.

You can assume that Horford and Bazemore are returned but that doesn't mean that the rest of the roster is the same, that is a leap that you made. And while making that assumption you are somehow trying to assert that what? The only type of significant move that the Hawks should make is if they sign another max free agent? Well that is entirely your opinion that has little to do with the success last season, the success THIS season, or the success for seasons to come.

I can see that you're in your feelings already once the "lols" start to drop so I'll bow out before the cavalry jumps in to coddle you.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#136 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:07 pm

MaceCase wrote:Yes, the natural logical progression from "we can re-sign Bazemore" is "we can sign Durant too" "lol".

No you don't get the cap otherwise you wouldn't have made that terrible mistake with DeMarre's free agency in the first place.

You can assume that Horford and Bazemore are returned but that doesn't mean that the rest of the roster is the same, that is a leap that you made. And while making that assumption you are somehow trying to assert that what? The only type of significant move that the Hawks should make is if they sign another max free agent? Well that is entirely your opinion that has little to do with the success last season, the success THIS season, or the success for seasons to come.

I can see that you're in your feelings already once the "lols" start to drop so I'll bow out before the cavalry jumps in to coddle you.

haha no you are what i call a keyboard commando. So you cant have any type of discussion because you have to be a nerd and obsessed with the decimal point and attack people to make them feel small so you can feel better about how all knowing you are.

its cool man ive dealt with people like that before, doesnt bother me.

You missed my point the whole time. you became obsessed with me mentioning 71 million and completely didnt see anything else.

OF COURSE they coudlnt sign both, I KNOW THAT, we debated it on this board for weeks. My point was if they wouldnt choose to pay DMC 15 million, what makes you think they will pay Bazemore the same OR MORE AND have to sign AH and go into the luxury tax . Yes they had to choose, because they couldnt sign both due to the short deal of DMC. I GET ALL THAT, i said that like 25 times.

So , i said FORGET it. Just answer me a simple question that i asked in the post before. But you wont, youll just tell me "im all in the feels" and that you are just too sophisticated to argue with us creatons (is that even how you spell it? I dont know, im dumb)

godspeed Genius.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#137 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:07 pm

HAWKS ARE A TOP 3 EAST TEAM THOUGH!!! YEAH!!!! - Mace on Jan 13th

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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#138 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:35 pm

PandaKidd wrote:HAWKS ARE A TOP 3 EAST TEAM THOUGH!!! YEAH!!!! - Mace on Jan 13th

Image

Image


Since when is being 1 game out of 2nd in the conference bad? 2 years ago, every one on this board would have been thrilled to be in that spot and now it's a joke?

This isn't playstation where you can just make trade after trade and completely ignore continuity and human emotion.
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#139 » by MaceCase » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:37 pm

:violin:
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Re: Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread 

Post#140 » by PandaKidd » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:56 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:HAWKS ARE A TOP 3 EAST TEAM THOUGH!!! YEAH!!!! - Mace on Jan 13th

Image

Image


Since when is being 1 game out of 2nd in the conference bad? 2 years ago, every one on this board would have been thrilled to be in that spot and now it's a joke?

This isn't playstation where you can just make trade after trade and completely ignore continuity and human emotion.


Continuity? We achieve that by signing 2 year stop gaps at SG/SF?

My point was he was trying to say that we should do NOTHING because "WE ARE A TOP 3 team in the east". My point was its mid JAN, and if we lose 2 games we could drop to 8th. Lets not act like 3rd place in Mid Jan is some achievement.

I dont think this team is good enough to compete and is only going to get worse as time goes on if we stay on the current course. PERIOD. Its just that simple.

You are looking at reupping with the same starting 5 THAT I BELIEVE wont make it out of the 2nd round and isnt good enough to challenge the really really good teams. I think we have an opportunity here, an opportunity we didnt chase previously.

We could look at and explore other options than staying with the same aging core right? Why wouldnt we look at that? IF we resign Al to a Max Deal, and IF Bazemore demands big money and we pay him, then what? youre going to ask both Thabo and Korver to go to the bench? You going to still start Korver at SG?

Thats ALL IM SAYING. Why not at least ENTERTAIN a different route than the one we are currently on. One that most likely will end in an early exit from the playoffs.

You are also going to be looking at nuclear disaster if Horford walks to someone else and we have nothing left because we underachieved again.

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