Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 1)

[NekiEcko]

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

#4 and #12, Harris with Nelson's deal and perhaps some "lesser of" of your 2017 picks for Horford and our #15 or Schroder if you prefer.

You're giving up your picks, sure, but us throwing in ours or a prospect should lessen that some. Horford should definitely garner the #4 so any scenario needs to lead with that as the baseline

[quoteHow about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I even hesitate to give up that much because while #4 could bust it could also yield us a superstar. While Horford could come back and play like his former self, he could just as easily be injury riddled for the next two years and we would be stuck in mediocrity. Adding more prospects and picks makes it that much harder to swallow.

Now that is a nice deal for Al if that ever happens. It gives us a vet back-up point in Nelson and two good young players in Nicholson and Harkless. In Orlando case, Al can play full time in PF so he does not have to go against bigger bodies.

[theatlfan]

Cool. I think if there is a deal to be had it would look like the one above.

Quick ?: When would Nelson's non-guarantee option hit? 6/30 or 7/14 would be the typical dates, but I guess there could be others...

[ATLHawksfan21]

I wouldn't take that deal for Al. We're really happy with dumping Al for role players and a pick with potential? Not me.

[Melvinlocker]

Cool. I think if there is a deal to be had it would look like the one above.

Quick ?: When would Nelson's non-guarantee option hit? 6/30 or 7/14 would be the typical dates, but I guess there could be others...

Not absolutely sure, but I believe it is sometime in early to mid July. There is a two million guarantee if you waive him and if you keep him he is essentially an expiring contract who can still produce at an adequate level and from what I can tell, your team likes to run lots of pick and role and Jameer definitely fits the profile if you were to keep him.

Anyway this deal probably won't happen, but I definitely think the higher ups have done their due diligence and at least discussed this so who know what will happen?

[theatlfan]

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I think we have an accord.

One more idea to throw out there:
ATL deals Horford, Teague and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

We could hit the reset button with 4 picks in the 15 of this draft (or 3 in the top 12 and Schröder). Personally, I think (say) Nogueira, Exum, Saric, J Young, and (Schröder or Harris) would be a team that we could grow with. We'd probably have to ship out Korver and Millsap for pennies on the dollar later, but I could swallow that as long as I have a team to go forward with.

ORL seals up the 1 and 4 position with 2 guys that are young(-ish for Horford) and already have pretty good chemistry.

SAC gets a slightly worse deal than the Afflalo + 12 for Terry + 8 but rumor is there are now heavy rumors that they like Schröder maybe more than 12.

Thoughts?

[theatlfan]

Not absolutely sure, but I believe it is sometime in early to mid July. There is a two million guarantee if you waive him and if you keep him he is essentially an expiring contract who can still produce at an adequate level and from what I can tell, your team likes to run lots of pick and role and Jameer definitely fits the profile if you were to keep him.

Anyway this deal probably won't happen, but I definitely think the higher ups have done their due diligence and at least discussed this so who know what will happen?

Sorry, missed this before the other post. Thanks for the reply. We're actually a little in a roster crunch and would need to meet the minimum so having a guaranteed portion wouldn't scare me away. I was just wondering if the deal would have to go through before the moratorium or not.

The deal I posted could happen before.

[Melvinlocker]

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I think we have an accord.

One more idea to throw out there:
ATL deals Horford, Teague and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

We could hit the reset button with 4 picks in the 15 of this draft (or 3 in the top 12 and Schröder). Personally, I think (say) Nogueira, Exum, Saric, J Young, and (Schröder or Harris) would be a team that we could grow with. We'd probably have to ship out Korver and Millsap for pennies on the dollar later, but I could swallow that as long as I have a team to go forward with.

ORL seals up the 1 and 4 position with 2 guys that are young(-ish for Horford) and already have pretty good chemistry.

SAC gets a slightly worse deal than the Afflalo + 12 for Terry + 8 but rumor is there are now heavy rumors that they like Schröder maybe more than 12.

Thoughts?

From the Magic's perspective I think we are giving up a little too much on our end. According Chad Ford's "sources" claim Charlotte has been trying to get Afflalo for almost a year by offering various packages which have included their 9th pick and Rob Hennigan has been reluctant to pull the trigger. I think our GM values Afflalo because he is still young, a consummate pro and he has a game that could age well. I would prefer keeping him as well. Still an interesting trade because I think Teague is criminally underrated by the analysts around the league.

[theatlfan]

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I think we have an accord.

One more idea to throw out there:
ATL deals Horford, Teague and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

We could hit the reset button with 4 picks in the 15 of this draft (or 3 in the top 12 and Schröder). Personally, I think (say) Nogueira, Exum, Saric, J Young, and (Schröder or Harris) would be a team that we could grow with. We'd probably have to ship out Korver and Millsap for pennies on the dollar later, but I could swallow that as long as I have a team to go forward with.

ORL seals up the 1 and 4 position with 2 guys that are young(-ish for Horford) and already have pretty good chemistry.

SAC gets a slightly worse deal than the Afflalo + 12 for Terry + 8 but rumor is there are now heavy rumors that they like Schröder maybe more than 12.

Thoughts?

From the Magic's perspective I think we are giving up a little too much on our end. According Chad Ford's "sources" claim Charlotte has been trying to get Afflalo for almost a year by offering various packages which have included their 9th pick and Rob Hennigan has been reluctant to pull the trigger. I think our GM values Afflalo because he is still young, a consummate pro and he has a game that could age well. I would prefer keeping him as well. Still an interesting trade because I think Teague is criminally underrated by the analysts around the league.

Hmm...
We could add in Korver or Carroll somehow. We'd ask more for Korver since he led the league in TS% last season (ahead of Lebron and Durant), but even that price would be a late 1st - even an eventual one would be fine with me. In all honesty, I think the bigger problem is that SAC is just getting too sweet a deal. If you'd be willing to say no for a Afflalo for 9, then adding in Schröder and salary dumps makes it a bit worse. Maybe we could try a different team.

Before I think too hard on it, what would be your thoughts on altering the deal above so that we'd send Carroll or Korver to y'all. Who would you prefer - sending a little extra for Korver or taking someone more similar to Afflalo in Carroll? I don't know how it'd end up (been thinking on CHAR and freeing up 9 and 24 somehow, but something isn't jiving so far), but it's a thought...

[Melvinlocker]

One more idea to throw out there:
ATL deals Horford, Teague and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

We could hit the reset button with 4 picks in the 15 of this draft (or 3 in the top 12 and Schröder). Personally, I think (say) Nogueira, Exum, Saric, J Young, and (Schröder or Harris) would be a team that we could grow with. We'd probably have to ship out Korver and Millsap for pennies on the dollar later, but I could swallow that as long as I have a team to go forward with.

ORL seals up the 1 and 4 position with 2 guys that are young(-ish for Horford) and already have pretty good chemistry.

SAC gets a slightly worse deal than the Afflalo + 12 for Terry + 8 but rumor is there are now heavy rumors that they like Schröder maybe more than 12.

Thoughts?

From the Magic's perspective I think we are giving up a little too much on our end. According Chad Ford's "sources" claim Charlotte has been trying to get Afflalo for almost a year by offering various packages which have included their 9th pick and Rob Hennigan has been reluctant to pull the trigger. I think our GM values Afflalo because he is still young, a consummate pro and he has a game that could age well. I would prefer keeping him as well. Still an interesting trade because I think Teague is criminally underrated by the analysts around the league.

Hmm...
We could add in Korver or Carroll somehow. We'd ask more for Korver since he led the league in TS% last season (ahead of Lebron and Durant), but even that price would be a late 1st - even an eventual one would be fine with me. In all honesty, I think the bigger problem is that SAC is just getting too sweet a deal. If you'd be willing to say no for a Afflalo for 9, then adding in Schröder and salary dumps makes it a bit worse. Maybe we could try a different team.

Before I think too hard on it, what would be your thoughts on altering the deal above so that we'd send Carroll or Korver to y'all. Who would you prefer - sending a little extra for Korver or taking someone more similar to Afflalo in Carroll? I don't know how it'd end up (been thinking on CHAR and freeing up 9 and 24 somehow, but something isn't jiving so far), but it's a thought...

I personally love both Korver and Carroll. You are dead on about his ts% and efg being a significant factor in his value. However, let's not dismiss the fact that Afflalo had a 57 ts percentage as our #1 option ( check his percentages of the dribble, they are insane for a guy who plays off all ala Korver) and when he was with Denver he was even more efficient (he had a season in the 60s if I recall correctly) albeit on a lower usage rate. He even has a quality post game and nearly scored 20 pts this season on low shot attempts.

I say all that say that Afflalo is worth more than Korver IMO. So I would counter that I'd want both Korver and Carroll for Afflalo and our pick from Philly pick that is lottery protected coming up in a few years. I realize that is steep price, but the Magic are not especially anxious to trade Afflalo because they value him and could fit him in long term. Henny would need his socks knocked off to trade him.

[theatlfan]

I personally love both Korver and Carroll. You are dead on about his ts% and efg being a significant factor in his value. However, let's not dismiss the fact that Afflalo had a 57 ts percentage as our #1 option ( check his percentages of the dribble, they are insane for a guy who plays off all ala Korver) and when he was with Denver he was even more efficient (he had a season in the 60s if I recall correctly) albeit on a lower usage rate. He even has a quality post game and nearly scored 20 pts this season on low shot attempts.

I say all that say that Afflalo is worth more than Korver IMO. So I would counter that I'd want both Korver and Carroll for Afflalo and our pick from Philly pick that is lottery protected coming up in a few years. I realize that is steep price, but the Magic are not especially anxious to trade Afflalo because they value him and could fit him in long term. Henny would need his socks knocked off to trade him.

This is fair. The only thing I would say is that I don't want this to seem like I'm denigrating Afflalo - I'm not trying to. My thought process was that the return (or non-inclusion - whatever) of Nicholson and Harkless from the other deal would be worth close to 12 so the addition of Teague, a good young PG, could come close to Afflalo. Still, on top of that, I would still have no problem adding our best perimeter defender in Carroll who was very opportunistic on O as well (57.5% TS). I would want more for Korver in the form of a late 1st, yes, but I think he's worth it. Still, if y'all prefer Afflalo / 12 over Teague / Carroll / Harkless / Nicholson, then no hard feelings - just leave the other deal as is.

[Melvinlocker]

I personally love both Korver and Carroll. You are dead on about his ts% and efg being a significant factor in his value. However, let's not dismiss the fact that Afflalo had a 57 ts percentage as our #1 option ( check his percentages of the dribble, they are insane for a guy who plays off all ala Korver) and when he was with Denver he was even more efficient (he had a season in the 60s if I recall correctly) albeit on a lower usage rate. He even has a quality post game and nearly scored 20 pts this season on low shot attempts.

I say all that say that Afflalo is worth more than Korver IMO. So I would counter that I'd want both Korver and Carroll for Afflalo and our pick from Philly pick that is lottery protected coming up in a few years. I realize that is steep price, but the Magic are not especially anxious to trade Afflalo because they value him and could fit him in long term. Henny would need his socks knocked off to trade him.

This is fair. The only thing I would say is that I don't want this to seem like I'm denigrating Afflalo - I'm not trying to. My thought process was that the return (or non-inclusion - whatever) of Nicholson and Harkless from the other deal would be worth close to 12 so the addition of Teague, a good young PG, could come close to Afflalo. Still, on top of that, I would still have no problem adding our best perimeter defender in Carroll who was very opportunistic on O as well (57.5% TS). I would want more for Korver in the form of a late 1st, yes, but I think he's worth it. Still, if y'all prefer Afflalo / 12 over Teague / Carroll / Harkless / Nicholson, then no hard feelings - just leave the other deal as is.

I am having trouble visualizing your new deal in totality right now (lots of moving parts). It seems like we aren't too far off. I really think Afflalo is special, but as I said earlier Korver and Carroll aren't slouches either. I essentially see Afflalo being worth more than Korver and I think Carroll is worth more than a late first. So I think Afflalo and a lotto protected first is near equal value for Korver and Carroll. I just don't see how that breaks down in the larger trade with Afflalo going to Sac.

Would you mind posting the revised trade?

[theatlfan]

I am having trouble visualizing your new deal in totality right now (lots of moving parts). It seems like we aren't too far off. I really think Afflalo is special, but as I said earlier Korver and Carroll aren't slouches either. I essentially see Afflalo being worth more than Korver and I think Carroll is worth more than a late first. So I think Afflalo and a lotto protected first is near equal value for Korver and Carroll. I just don't see how that breaks down in the larger trade with Afflalo going to Sac.

Would you mind posting the revised trade?

Sure. I'm going to use the SAC trade I used before as the basis, but again, I would think a different team could, and probably should, be found, but for illustrative purposes, it'll work (changes to original offer in bold):
ATL deals Horford, Teague, Carroll and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford, Carroll and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

If you wanted Korver instead:
ATL deals Horford, Teague, Korver and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12, PHI '17 1st*
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12, PHI '17 1st* for Horford, Korver and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)
* - the future 1st is completely negotiable. Instead of PHI's pick, you could use LAL's or a heavily protected one of your own (say, 20/14/14/2 2nds protection).

Now, I haven't vetted this through the trade checker and I'd personally prefer JET over the D Williams/Outlaw combo, but you get the idea here. Basically, if you want more for Afflalo, I'd have no problem adding Carroll (for "free") or Korver (for an additional future late 1st). The way I look at it is that if we going the route of having 4 picks in the top 15 of this draft, then good players a little further on in their career arc just wouldn't have the value that they would for a team that is arming themselves for a playoff run like you would be with the acquisition of Horford and Teague. I would prefer to hold on of the two JIC I need one to help out with a Millsap deal though.

[Melvinlocker]

I am having trouble visualizing your new deal in totality right now (lots of moving parts). It seems like we aren't too far off. I really think Afflalo is special, but as I said earlier Korver and Carroll aren't slouches either. I essentially see Afflalo being worth more than Korver and I think Carroll is worth more than a late first. So I think Afflalo and a lotto protected first is near equal value for Korver and Carroll. I just don't see how that breaks down in the larger trade with Afflalo going to Sac.

Would you mind posting the revised trade?

Sure. I'm going to use the SAC trade I used before as the basis, but again, I would think a different team could, and probably should, be found, but for illustrative purposes, it'll work (changes to original offer in bold):
ATL deals Horford, Teague, Carroll and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12 for Horford, Carroll and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)

If you wanted Korver instead:
ATL deals Horford, Teague, Korver and (Schröder OR 15) for Nelson, D Williams, Outlaw, and 4, 8, 12, PHI '17 1st*
ORL deals Nelson, Afflalo, 4, 12, PHI '17 1st* for Horford, Korver and Teague
SAC deal D Williams, Outlaw, 8 for Afflalo and (Schröder OR 15)
* - the future 1st is completely negotiable. Instead of PHI's pick, you could use LAL's or a heavily protected one of your own (say, 20/14/14/2 2nds protection).

Now, I haven't vetted this through the trade checker and I'd personally prefer JET over the D Williams/Outlaw combo, but you get the idea here. Basically, if you want more for Afflalo, I'd have no problem adding Carroll (for "free") or Korver (for an additional future late 1st). The way I look at it is that if we going the route of having 4 picks in the top 15 of this draft, then good players a little further on in their career arc just wouldn't have the value that they would for a team that is arming themselves for a playoff run like you would be with the acquisition of Horford and Teague. I would prefer to hold on of the two JIC I need one to help out with a Millsap deal though.

Great work!

I think I would take the first deal, with one minor change. I would want to switch our 12 this year for our Philly pick which is lotto protected. I think it benefits you better because your picks would be more staggered (three rookies at once plus your any second rounders you have will give you headaches. Orlando is heading into their third year of the rebuild and I think Henny would rather keep 12 and see what it yields so that we could make the most out of the Horford years.

Other than that I think we have a deal so I'll send the info to our GM and let you know if we can swing a deal on draft night!

[ATLHawksfan21]

Really? Trading 3 proven players who are all on good deals for 3 picks and a bunch of scrubs? I will never understand this logic.

[theatlfan]

Great work!

I think I would take the first deal, with one minor change. I would want to switch our 12 this year for our Philly pick which is lotto protected. I think it benefits you better because your picks would be more staggered (three rookies at once plus your any second rounders you have will give you headaches. Orlando is heading into their third year of the rebuild and I think Henny would rather keep 12 and see what it yields so that we could make the most out of the Horford years.

Other than that I think we have a deal so I'll send the info to our GM and let you know if we can swing a deal on draft night!

Thanks. Not a huge fan of the alteration though - 1st, I would think that sending a pick so far in the future would kill the value we'd be receiving - the 12th pick in 3-4 years isn't worth the 12th now and that's not considering that the PHI would be no better than 12 and could be much worse. 2nd, one big factor is that the rationale for the deal would be to reset our roster all at once - do the cut over in one fell swoop and start anew. I'd guess 2 of the 4 picks would be used on stashable Euros anyway (Saric and Porzingis) as our 2nd likely would be as well so the rookie overload wouldn't be a too huge concern.

Too bad Ferry isn't on my personal speed dial though. I have a lot of other questions for him...

[tbhawksfan]

How about just:

Horf / #15

for

#4 / #12 / Harkless / salary filler

[xccelerate]

Thoughts on trading for Gallinari since Parsons or Hayward are unlikely?

Something like:

Atl gets: Gallinari + Asik
Denver gets: Terrence Jones + Lou Williams
Hou gets: Paul Millsap

[FCNATL85]

How about just:

Horf / #15

for

#4 / #12 / Harkless / salary filler

I would do this one in a hearbeat.
Would translate in Embiid or Vonleh and Saric for example!+ Harkless...anytime.

Would add three talented young players to last year PO team, you bet!

[ATL Boy]

Thoughts on trading for Gallinari since Parsons or Hayward are unlikely?

Something like:

Atl gets: Gallinari + Asik
Denver gets: Terrence Jones + Lou Williams
Hou gets: Paul Millsap

I say yes. Millsap is expiring and losing Lou wouldn't hurt as much as before. Gallinari is coming off surgery but he's one of the best SFs when fully healthy, and Asik would give us our C. The only reason I'd reject it would be if we had a serious chance of getting a top FA this year

[SBM]

Thoughts on trading for Gallinari since Parsons or Hayward are unlikely?

Something like:

Atl gets: Gallinari + Asik
Denver gets: Terrence Jones + Lou Williams
Hou gets: Paul Millsap

Don't trust Gallinari's health other than that I would do it