2018 -- NBA Games Thread

[MaceCase]

I'm not sure i followed your point there but I disagree with some of that. In what world is IT better than Kyrie? Not in this flat world.
Kyrie's scoring and overall shooting percentage are well over what he did in Cleveland. Everything he is doing screams career year for a guy who was already an all star. And LOTS of people thought Lebron was the reason he looked like a superstar in Cleveland.

All this talk about how the Celtics aren't good when Horford is off the court is stupid. The Celtics aren't good when friggin Aron Baynes is on the court. Pretty simple really. They said the same thing in Atlanta. When you're backup is Gustavo Ayon or Baynes then yes your on/off court comparison looks really great.

Mac, stop
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id1_select=Kyrie+Irving&y1=2018&player_id1=irvinky01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id2_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y2=2017&player_id2=thomais02&idx=players

IT had a better year last year than what Kyrie is having this year. And no, Kyrie is not "well" over what he was in Cleveland. He's seen some gains in some areas and some loses in others. This is the point I'm making, you can't replace IT with less individual production then say that that is the catalyst of increased team success. There has to be something going on elsewhere. It's not just with Al but although I've certainly derided his character I've certainly always recognized him as the ultimate glue guy.

[MaceCase]

Now dude plays defense, scores clutch buckets and carries a team ravaged by injuries to be the top team in the league...and still gets no credit?

The defense is slipping
This defensive slide also coincides with Kyrie Irving's individual DRPM sliding closer to his career norms. On the year he's now back to being the 57th ranked PG via DRPM.

Kyrie was ranked 69th last year for frame of reference.
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1645655

He's always hit clutch shots

Watch on YouTube

And is sitting behind Al in +/-, VORP, ORTG and DRTG on a team "ravaged" by one injury.

[MaceCase]

One player out for a season equals "a team ravaged by injuries". We get it, chief. Go fawn over some more old posts.



Edit: ooooooo, the sneaky deleted post trick. Really makes you wonder what else goes on in the archives. Chad Ford would be proud.

[Jamaaliver]

^Nah, Celtics have been dealing with injuries from day one. Hayward's out. Al has missed time. Morris twin has missed time. Smart has missed time. Kyrie has even been playing with a broken face.


Regarding Kyrie's slipping defense...I guess. Maybe it's related to his current injury.
But, it's still miles ahead of IT, last season's worst defender.



In general, people have been hating on KI for years. Making outrageous claims about how inept he is. And yet, he's continued to improve. At some point, in the midst of a Hall of Fame career...it's worth admitting that the young man is just pretty good at basketball.

My favorite outrageous Irving line:

Kyrie without someone else to be the lead dog has consistently been a loser. He is a #2.

...I will state the point that was made 1000 times in here and you chose to ignore everytime, he isn't a guy that can LEAD a successful team.

May 2016


........

Man, I miss Rip.

[macd-gm]

Kyrie is scoring almost 4 points above his career average while shooting 40 points better percentage wise. Assist numbers are pretty much the same. I really think you're alone in thinking that IT is anywhere near the player that Kyrie is. You pull IT's last year numbers which were absolutely career numbers aided by him being basically the only true scoring option on an excellent team full of 3&D guys.

I really can't imagine what more Kyrie could do to get some credit. I mean the team is 22-4 for crying out loud.

[Jamaaliver]

One player out for a season equals "a team ravaged by injuries". We get it, chief. Go fawn over some more old posts.



Edit: ooooooo, the sneaky deleted post trick. Really makes you wonder what else goes on in the archives. Chad Ford would be proud.

Nah, I wouldn't do that.

Scouts honor.

I think I misunderstood the 'one injury' you were referring to.

[Jamaaliver]

And an argument against Kyrie's MVP caliber season.

Read on Twitter

[macd-gm]

I don't think Kyrie is a true MVP candidate by any stretch. But this article is the same crap. The celtics are crappy with Horford off the court because their front court depth sucks.

[MaceCase]

Kyrie is scoring almost 4 points above his career average while shooting 40 points better percentage wise. Assist numbers are pretty much the same. I really think you're alone in thinking that IT is anywhere near the player that Kyrie is. You pull IT's last year numbers which were absolutely career numbers aided by him being basically the only true scoring option on an excellent team full of 3&D guys.

I really can't imagine what more Kyrie could do to get some credit. I mean the team is 22-4 for crying out loud.

Wait, why are you taking Kyrie's current single season and comparing it against his career but then telling me to discount Thomas' single season?

You can't twist the argument and cherry pick like that, Kyrie averaged 25ppg just last year, he's scoring 23.5 now. Clearly he can score, he could always score, he's not doing anything that we didn't think he could already do. He's always gotten credit for that.

Thomas clearly had a better season as a Celtic, you cannot discount that. If Thomas on a team with a bunch of 3 and D players put up historical numbers I can't see how Kyrie on a better team while not putting up historical numbers is worthy of the argument "give the guy credit". He's gotten credit so stop that narrative, the point is he doesn't deserve all the credit.

I don't think Kyrie is a true MVP candidate by any stretch. But this article is the same crap. The celtics are crappy with Horford off the court because their front court depth sucks.

That article points to what I've been saying. If Al only benefits from the Celts frontcourt depth sucking then explain them being better or as good without Kyrie? That either says they have some extreme quality at PG but I doubt that with the likes of Rozier and Smart or maybe perhaps Kyrie doesn't distinguish himself too far from them as Al does from his counterparts.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

My hope is that someday D Bembry can put up varied stats/production such as this in the near future.

[Robo_Claw]

Kyrie was an established scorer and All Star well before LeBron returned so I'm not sure where the idea he'd just fall off a cliff came from. There were however always questions about the impact of his ability as a solo act but he too is just continuing to do what he's always done.

Dude puts up production on a bad team and gets criticized for it:

Kyrie never even made the playoffs without LeBron.

Kyrie isn't elite talent...no way in the hell am I paying a guy that has proven to not be able to lead a winning team 20 million bucks.

Dude puts up production on a contender and gets no credit:

We've seen Thomas carry scrubs to the playoffs whereas we've seen Kyrie blow leads without his wet nurse on the court for even 2 minutes.

He's an elite iso-scorer and that's about the full breadth of his talent.

Give Kyrie 3&D players and that will be top 3 in the east easily. Not one person is shutting him down.

Well, there was this other guy they were worried about too that couldn't even sit a minute unless a 10 point lead turned into a 10 point deficit...

Now dude plays defense, scores clutch buckets and carries a team ravaged by injuries to be the top team in the league...and still gets no credit?

I’m eating crow so far. Credit where credit is due.

[Jamaaliver]

I really can't imagine what more Kyrie could do to get some credit. I mean the team is 22-4 for crying out loud.

+1000


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[ATL Boy]

Zach Randolph went for 35 and 13 against Cousins last night. Got into it with Boogie a bit as well and told him that where he's from "bullies get bullied".

It's great to see Zbo going out there and putting up numbers. One of my favorite players of all time, and easily the most intimidating player in the NBA (as far as physical altercations are concerned).


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[Spud2nique]

Zach Randolph went for 35 and 13 against Cousins last night. Got into it with Boogie a bit as well and told him that where he's from "bullies get bullied".

It's great to see Zbo going out there and putting up numbers. One of my favorite players of all time, and easily the most intimidating player in the NBA (as far as physical altercations are concerned).


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YES! Been a fan of the Zbo low post game since the days of the northwest and the cardiac kids..the jailblazers..


Zbo is the man...no drama just straight double doubles. Wish we were an elite team going for a championship and add a piece like him...

Ps Demarcus needs to stay in his lane...Durant seems to be his target...and I don't mind at all!

[ATL Boy]

Victor Oladipo has been setting the world on fire this year...

It would've been nice if we traded Millsap for Oladipo and Orlando's first on draft night a few years ago when they were asking around for a starting PF (and ended up getting Ibaka for that package).


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[Jamaaliver]

Victor Oladipo has been setting the world on fire this year...

It would've been nice if we traded Millsap for Oladipo and Orlando's first on draft night a few years ago when they were asking around for a starting PF (and ended up getting Ibaka for that package).


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Yes!!!!

Oladipo was being dangled for quite a while from Orlando. And it appears he was the most talented of that excess of wing players they had accumulated. Tobias Harris was tossed aside for a modest return, as well.

That GM in ORL was a fool. Gifting away talented youngsters before they even hit their prime.

But our management was too stubborn/short-sighted to take advantage.

Spoiler:

They should just let us run the team, Adnan.

I had a thought overnight. I think Oladipo has the chance to be a very good SG. not an offensive juggernaut, but an above average, two-way, get to the rim star. At a position that is woefully devoid of talent throughout the the league.

He has a good work ethic and a desire to excel. In our system, at age 25, he could possibly be as good as Jimmy Butler is today. An above average player, perennial All Star with no real holes in his game...

Absolutely. I'm also on record saying that I think his jump shot will come around when he gets to work with our exceptional shooting coaches.

I'd give a first round pick in addition to Teague without much hesitation.

^Feb 2016

[kg01]

What LOladipo is doing isn't sustainable going forward. He's just being given the same green light he had early on in ORL. He'll probably make the all-star team this season but if/when IND adds more offensive talent, he'll come down to earth.

Agree though on ORL's management being completely inept. Them dudes bet on crap-a** Elfrid and his dumb-a** hairstyle and came up all kinds-a snake-eyes.

[Jamaaliver]

^You ain't wrong.

But the fact he's even capable of doing it producing at this level while leading a decent, playoff-caliber team is noteworthy.

[ATL Boy]

I don't think anyone expects him to sustain this level of play, but that jumpshot has really been coming around and he would be so nice to have on our team as he embark on this rebuild (who knows, maybe we wouldn't even have to be rebuilding if we made that trade).

Instead, we lost Millsap for nothing the same way we lost Horford for nothing. Rob Hennigan and the Magic FO at the time was completely inept but our management led by Coach Bud/Wilcox wasn't that much better. We let every one of our potential trade pieces other than Korver and Teague die on the vine (even with Teague we waited until he was an expiring contract to move him but the return was nice), and let our two best players leave for nothing in FA. I see this entire rebuild as the fault of the previous decision makers (Bud/Wilcox).

[Spud2nique]

I'm glad we didn't get oladipo...fools gold right there..his style of play isn't going far. He's seems like a cool dude I'm just glad he's not ours.