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What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like?

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#181 » by Geaux_Hawks » Tue Jul 2, 2024 3:17 am

dms269 wrote:
Geaux_Hawks wrote:I never saw us as players in free agency until we figured out where Cap/Hunter were going. There's even a possibility that we just keep Capela, and only trade Hunter. If that happened, I could see OO being the starter, and Cap spelling him against bigger 5's.

I mean we still need to be capable of rebounding, and Cap is certainly elite at that(#1 ORB last year). Folks assumed Gobert was declining last year, and he bounced back to his normal play. Just saying, I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Clint.
Of course he can rebound, because all he does is stand there. Even if he pulls down ORB he had his worst offensive shooting seasons since his rookie year. What benefit is getting ORBs if you miss open dunks?

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However you slice it, a rebound is a rebound. Your team still maintains possession instead of completely losing it. I'm not saying we must keep Capela. I'm just stating we shouldn't just overlook his ability to grab boards because folks will be singing a different tune if we're constantly getting killed on the boards.
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#182 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jul 2, 2024 2:08 pm

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#183 » by HMFFL » Tue Jul 2, 2024 5:15 pm

We don't need six players to have double-digit field goal attempts. We need only four or at the very max five. Coach needs to manage this better.

Saddiq Bey had 11.1 attempt and he never needed to have that many attempts. He shot 40% shooting from the field and he did us no favors shooting three points at 31%. If you're not going to make your shots you shouldn't have double digit attempts.

Off our bench with 9 attempts per game he was much more effective but he handicapped us as a starter.

Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9 shot attempts per game? He doesn't deserve that many attempts. He needs to go sooner than later.







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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#184 » by atlantabbq99 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 6:14 pm

I posted this a year or two ago, but I compared Trae to Iverson and how the Sixers failed AI by not getting him enough defensive players and getting him more offensive players after the Lakers Finals
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#185 » by HMFFL » Tue Jul 2, 2024 11:37 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:I posted this a year or two ago, but I compared Trae to Iverson and how the Sixers failed AI by not getting him enough defensive players and getting him more offensive players after the Lakers Finals
Trae still needs offensive talent. I don't remember Iverson having much in Philadelphia. Chris Webber scored but the impact was small in two seasons.

Iverson played multiple seasons where he was the only one on his team that had double-digit shot attempts.



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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#186 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:10 am

Three of the players on this list have been traded in the past 6 months.

How did we miss out on each and every one of them? :banghead:

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#187 » by jayu70 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:37 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Three of the players on this list have been traded in the past 6 months.

How did we miss out on each and every one of them? :banghead:

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Hawks DNA?
Whatever the hell that is.
Sigh! :-?

....and money. :nonono:
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#188 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 11:42 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Three of the players on this list have been traded in the past 6 months.

How did we miss out on each and every one of them? :banghead:

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Kyle Anderson is like many players in the league....Under appreciated. He's not the most athletic but you're not going to question his passion for the game.

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#189 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 12:06 pm

HMFFL wrote:We don't need six players to have double-digit field goal attempts. We need only four or at the very max five. Coach needs to manage this better.

Saddiq Bey had 11.1 attempt and he never needed to have that many attempts. He shot 40% shooting from the field and he did us no favors shooting three points at 31%. If you're not going to make your shots you shouldn't have double digit attempts.

Off our bench with 9 attempts per game he was much more effective but he handicapped us as a starter.

Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9 shot attempts per game? He doesn't deserve that many attempts. He needs to go sooner than later.


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Playoff teams with players with Double Digit Field Goal Attempts in the regular season:

Orlando 2. Next season Jalen Suggs needs to be the third player. Cole Anthony who comes off the Magic bench had 9 attempts per game like Jalen Suggs. That's a fail. Cole's not a good enough shooter.

New York Knicks 4

Cleveland 6. They're not going to go anywhere as long as
Caris LeVert averages 12 attempts per game. 42% shooter from the field, 32% from 3, but has the third most attempts on the roster.

Indiana 4. The core players on the team.

Denver 3

Minnesota 3

Dallas 4. They traded THJ who averaged the third most attempts on the team shooting 40% from the field. No reason for THJ to even been on the radar in shot attempts per game.


Milwaukee 4

With Dejounte Murray gone Atlanta needs to focus on four players max to take majority of the shot attempts.

Trae Young
Jalen Johnson
De'Andre Hunter
Zaccharie Risacher

23-24 Season:
Dejounte Murray 18.8
Trae Young 18.7
Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9
Jalen Johnson 12.5
De'Andre Hunter 11.6
Saddiq Bey 11.1








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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#190 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:21 pm

HMFFL wrote:We don't need six players to have double-digit field goal attempts. We need only four or at the very max five. Coach needs to manage this better.

With Dejounte Murray gone Atlanta needs to focus on four players max to take majority of the shot attempts.

  • Trae Young
  • Jalen Johnson
  • De'Andre Hunter
  • Zaccharie Risacher
Spoiler:
23-24 Season:
Dejounte Murray 18.8
Trae Young 18.7
Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9
Jalen Johnson 12.5
De'Andre Hunter 11.6
Saddiq Bey 11.1


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How is Bogdan Bogdanovic, our best scorer, not on this list??
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#191 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 3:12 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
HMFFL wrote:We don't need six players to have double-digit field goal attempts. We need only four or at the very max five. Coach needs to manage this better.

With Dejounte Murray gone Atlanta needs to focus on four players max to take majority of the shot attempts.

  • Trae Young
  • Jalen Johnson
  • De'Andre Hunter
  • Zaccharie Risacher
Spoiler:
23-24 Season:
Dejounte Murray 18.8
Trae Young 18.7
Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9
Jalen Johnson 12.5
De'Andre Hunter 11.6
Saddiq Bey 11.1


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How is Bogdan Bogdanovic, our best scorer, not on this list??
There's no reason to have six players per game with double digit field goal attempts. We must improve on this. Murray's team leading attempts should be spread out amongst the players, but mainly to Jalen Johnson, and Zacch. Bogi shouldn't be attempting 13.9 field goals per game.


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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#192 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 3, 2024 4:08 pm

HMFFL wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:How is Bogdan Bogdanovic, our best scorer, not on this list??


There's no reason to have six players per game with double digit field goal attempts. We must improve on this. Murray's team leading attempts should be spread out amongst the players, but mainly to Jalen Johnson, and Zacch. Bogi shouldn't be attempting 13.9 field goals per game.



I am shocked! :o

You're pushing for a couple of 3 & D players to take on a bigger chunk of the scoring load, and for the best shooter/scorer on the squad to take fewer shots?

Shooting is literally Bogi's best attribute!!
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#193 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 5:04 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
HMFFL wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:How is Bogdan Bogdanovic, our best scorer, not on this list??


There's no reason to have six players per game with double digit field goal attempts. We must improve on this. Murray's team leading attempts should be spread out amongst the players, but mainly to Jalen Johnson, and Zacch. Bogi shouldn't be attempting 13.9 field goals per game.



I am shocked! :o

You're pushing for a couple of 3 & D players to take on a bigger chunk of the scoring load, and for the best shooter/scorer on the squad to take fewer shots?

Shooting is literally Bogi's best attribute!!
You might be overvaluing Bogi. He has a friendly contract so that has value and we must build for the future. He's going to be 32 years old next season, which isn't old, but we have young talent that need more attempts.

How many shot attempts per game do you think Zaccharie Risacher needs? I believe he needs to start, have 10 fga per game, as long as he's shooting in the mid 40% range.



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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#194 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:09 pm

HMFFL wrote:You might be overvaluing Bogi. He has a friendly contract so that has value and we must build for the future. He's going to be 32 years old next season, which isn't old, but we have young talent that need more attempts.

How many shot attempts per game do you think Zaccharie Risacher needs? I believe he needs to start, have 10 fga per game, as long as he's shooting in the mid 40% range.


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I agree that Bogi is an attractive trade asset, but I'm not moving him until it's time to move Trae. Bogi is probably the most 'win-now' piece that we have - based on age and production.

Bogdan just came out of a career season, avg 17 ppg as a starter and looks healthy for the the first time in years. I'd say 15 FGAs each game for Bogi. (At least!!!)



As far as Risacher:

BRANDIN PODZIEMSKI started 28 games as a rookie for a competitive Golden State team and avg 9 shots a game.

JAIME JAQUEZ JR. started 20 games as a rookie for a competitive Miami team and avg 12 shots a game.

I would expect Risacher to start 30+ games and avg around 10 shot attempts during the second half of the season.
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#195 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:57 pm

Bring
Back
K-Von!!!

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#196 » by jayu70 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 7:13 pm

More Bruno?
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#197 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 8:36 pm

jayu70 wrote:More Bruno?
Read on Twitter
He's put in the work to become successful. We must continue to support him and give him more time on the floor.

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#198 » by HMFFL » Wed Jul 3, 2024 8:45 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
HMFFL wrote:You might be overvaluing Bogi. He has a friendly contract so that has value and we must build for the future. He's going to be 32 years old next season, which isn't old, but we have young talent that need more attempts.

How many shot attempts per game do you think Zaccharie Risacher needs? I believe he needs to start, have 10 fga per game, as long as he's shooting in the mid 40% range.


Image

I agree that Bogi is an attractive trade asset, but I'm not moving him until it's time to move Trae. Bogi is probably the most 'win-now' piece that we have - based on age and production.

Bogdan just came out of a career season, avg 17 ppg as a starter and looks healthy for the the first time in years. I'd say 15 FGAs each game for Bogi. (At least!!!)



As far as Risacher:

BRANDIN PODZIEMSKI started 28 games as a rookie for a competitive Golden State team and avg 9 shots a game.

JAIME JAQUEZ JR. started 20 games as a rookie for a competitive Miami team and avg 12 shots a game.

I would expect Risacher to start 30+ games and avg around 10 shot attempts during the second half of the season.
Win now piece is value and we should trade Bogi for that reason. We're not winning anything in the near future.

His 16.9ppg by taking a career high in attempts and his shooting percentage decreased.

De'Andre Hunter needs to average the 13.9 that Bogi does. We have more shooters than just Bogi.

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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#199 » by Geaux_Hawks » Wed Jul 3, 2024 11:52 pm

HMFFL wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
HMFFL wrote:We don't need six players to have double-digit field goal attempts. We need only four or at the very max five. Coach needs to manage this better.

With Dejounte Murray gone Atlanta needs to focus on four players max to take majority of the shot attempts.

  • Trae Young
  • Jalen Johnson
  • De'Andre Hunter
  • Zaccharie Risacher
Spoiler:
23-24 Season:
Dejounte Murray 18.8
Trae Young 18.7
Bogdan Bogdanović 13.9
Jalen Johnson 12.5
De'Andre Hunter 11.6
Saddiq Bey 11.1


Image

How is Bogdan Bogdanovic, our best scorer, not on this list??
There's no reason to have six players per game with double digit field goal attempts. We must improve on this. Murray's team leading attempts should be spread out amongst the players, but mainly to Jalen Johnson, and Zacch. Bogi shouldn't be attempting 13.9 field goals per game.


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Yeah NBA offenses don't work this way. Particularly offenses that utilizes lots of ball movement. Not only that, but shuffling guys in and out of the lineup due to injury will inflate FGA's per game. I imagine this was the case for us all year. If Bey originally comes off the bench, and suddenly thrust into a starter role, then he's going to get more attempts naturally being on the floor more.

If we were more of an ISO heavy team, then a coach could control the amount of shots a player takes better, but even then, it's not a guaranteed outcome. THJ and Dallas pretty much confirms this. Mavs are a heavy iso, drive and kick offense. Kyrie and Luka combined for 43 FGA per game, and THJ still found a way to get 12. Giving Kyrie/Luka 1.5 more FGA, isn't going to make difference.

As far as Bogi not being deserving of his 14 FGA, i'd say there's no justification that Zacch deserves more touches than him either at the moment. If anything, they shoot about the same, and JJ gets the bump. Who wouldn't want a career 38% 3 point shooter taking at least 10 shots a game?
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Re: What does the ideal lineup around Trae even look like? 

Post#200 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jul 4, 2024 7:41 pm

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